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merrydolphin · 02-12-2022, 07:11

In 4 serious cruising boats over a 50 yr period, my last boat now over 50 yrs old, and still crossing oceans and never a problem with encapsulated ballast.

SeeMonstrEd · 02-12-2022, 08:04

I have a 1996 Jeanneau 50 with the same iron keel with mild steel bolts and nuts in the shallow bilge that get wet at the slightest moisture in the bilge.

My vessel is now 26 years old. I recently had my keel bolt nuts replaced by a professional boatyard. They were in much worse condition than those in the pictures. They had to split most of the nuts to get them off. Once the nuts were removed the threaded rod underneath looked nearly new after 26 years.

They did a test to see if the seal was still good. They lifted the vessel off of the ground with only the 5200 holding the keel on. No keel nuts. They lifted it for over an hour and the keel was still solidly attached.

The cleaned everything up and replace the nuts, backing plates, and washers. This was a year ago. They sealed it all with 5200 when they replaced the nuts and I painted the whole thing with bilge paint. This whole process was not cheap but I sleep much better knowing my keel is safely attached. Hopefully I will be good for another 15-20 years.

If your bolts are not leaking and you have not had a bad grounding incident I suggest you clean them up and move on.

If you have any doubts, get those nuts replaced and check the keel-hull join carefully.

If you have questions about what a bad grounding looks like check out the videos at Expedition Evans on YouTube. They bought a boat that was badly damaged in a grounding. That boat was sailed for years before the insurance discovered the problem and declared the boat a total loss. The Evans bought the boat as-is and did a very professional repair job that was actually better than new. You can see what the keel bolts actually look like in one of videos where they clean up and reset their keel.

YANDINA · 02-12-2022, 08:33

Use some Aerokroil on it. It is an amazing penetrating oil.
I had a rusted bolt on a tank top flange that had been giving me problems. Sprayed it with Aerokroil, went to lunch and when I came back the nut had fallen off and sitting on the tank. YMMV

.

boatpoker · 02-12-2022, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

A keel bolt usually has a plate, large washer, etc, attached to the bottom of the bolt, so is unlikely to come out. Assume the bolt is embedded 18" or more.

Nonetheless, being a worrywart like me, I'd probably pull the boat to perform any kind of keel work.

Never heard that before. Every one I've seen, the steel rod was simply threaded into the cast iron.

boatpoker · 02-12-2022, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorladd

I would use 316L for the replacement plates as well as the nuts. Those bolts could also be stainless and I would guess 316 as they show no sign of rust as 304 surely would... and yes, one at a time in the water should present no problem... you might consider putting on a good quantity of sheep fat (anhydrous lanolin) on the threads and new nuts which will make them removable for a very long time

Stainless is the worst possible choice due to the potential for crevice corrosion on top of galvanic corrosion due to the -.03 potential voltage difference (or more depending on type of stainless) between stainless steel and the the steel rod.

MicHughV · 02-12-2022, 09:59

found this video....

the keel appears to have threaded inserts cast into the keel, and the keel bolts thread into that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj8AVCgiEWY

BBill · 02-12-2022, 10:16

The problem with tightening nuts is you may compromise the bolt. Iron and steel bolts can hourglass at the hull joint and stainless can stress crack...put torque on them and twisting the bolt may happen. There is no such thing as looking at your keel bolt nuts and getting an accurate assessment on bolt condition. It's the same with standing rigging but that' s another topic. The only way to check for sure is pulling the bolts if threaded or lifting the keel to see bolt at hull joint. Just because a neighbor boat had no issues means squat what yours might look like after 20 yrs. If your surveyor says the bolts are good just by looking at their condition in the bilge...read the small print that says visual condition inspection.

The story about 5200 holding a keel on is interesting but I imagine at load while sailing the story might be different. Yrs back people actually drilled and tapped iron and lead keels to backup old bolts when the old could not be removed. The great LF Herreshoff drilled and shallow tapped lead on his new builds with legendary success...which is contrary to many who post on the subject.

boatpoker · 02-12-2022, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

found this video....

the keel appears to have threaded inserts cast into the keel, and the keel bolts thread into that.

Thanks but I see no indication of inserts. It looks just like every other one I've seen.

wingssail · 02-12-2022, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

The keel bolt nuts and plates on my Jeanneau 49DS also look pretty rusty and the posting reminds me to get them looked at. Sods law of the sea being what it is the boat has just been lifted and splashed!

The point that I would wish to make is that the root cause of this problem is bad design by Jeanneau. Not of the keel fixings. Of the bilge. The boat is nearly flat bottomed and the limber holes are above the hull base. Which itself is not smooth or shaped to flow water into the tiny sump by the bilge pump.

The result is that if there is the slightest leak in the boat a cm or more of water sits in the bottom of the boat. Including and all around the keel fixings. So they end up living a miserable wet existence.

By way of example, even if there is no unintended leak (seacock, shower, whatever) if you take the drain plug out of the fridge the water would simply end up sitting in the bilge.

Maybe the litigous US owners of Jeanneau boats will take out a class action!

If the OP is going to sue somebody (he isn't) it would be himself. This design was obvious when he bought the boat and was done for a purpose, a good purpose, to allow a bolt-on keel on a flat bottom, for sailing ability. If he didn't like that design he should not buy that boat, nor should you if you think it is a bad design.

I have had a similar problem but it was rusting backing plate, not rusting keel bolt nuts, and I replaced two backing plates in the water, no issues. Now, 10 years later, I have two more which need it. I will do it in the water.

nofacey · 02-12-2022, 10:35

Geez guys, the nut shown is not that bad, don’t jump to destructive removal.

Papawads, no matter what else you do, scrape the worst one clean, light up the area, and take a really good look at what you’re dealing with. I suspect you have mostly surface corrosion on a mild steel nut, with a SS keel bolt, and who knows what as a washer. I believe an good 6 point socket will still fit well (use 6 Pt vs 12 Pt)

Scrape it clean, clean threads well, inspect…..and given all looking reasonable and socket feeling solid, I’d pick one, warm it up well with a heat gun, spray with your favourite penetrating oil (with appropriate containment so you don’t end up throughout the bilge), repeat for 2 days - and then try loosening with a good breaker bar.
One bolt in the water will not sink your boat, even if the whole thing comes out.
- if the breaker bar doesn’t work, I’d put an impact gun on it. If that doesn’t work, go get a pro…..he’ll have a bigger gun

Once you’ve got one off, you can inspect bolt, washer etc and decide where to go from there. I’d go 316ss for any replacements, with tuffgel to ensure no galling on what’s likely a SS keelbolt.

Checking your keel to hull joint for weeping/rust is a good idea next time you haul.

There’s likely a Jeanneau users group online to boot…..if so, that’d likely be a decent dat source.

MicHughV · 02-12-2022, 10:37

look at minute 4:06 thru' 4:10....you can see the inserts clear as daylight...

Noahr · 02-12-2022, 15:09

Ask Jeanneau customer service.

boatpoker · 02-12-2022, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

look at minute 4:06 thru' 4:10....you can see the inserts clear as daylight...

I guess your eyesight is better than mine.
Do you have any citations that inserts are fitted in Jeanneau's ?
None of the Jeanneaus or Beneteaus (same company) I've inspected had such fittings.