Tabbing in Fiberglass Holders

[a64pilot]

I got to thinking about it last night.
Remember the TV Commercial years ago about I think EF Hutton, you know The one when EF Hutton speaks, everybody listens?
Well with composites Minaret is EF Hutton to me, so I found a plexus kit with a manual push stick, sort of like the two part epoxies you buy at the box store. I’m going to give the Plexus a try, but still will sand the area clean on both.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I got to thinking about it last night.
Remember the TV Commercial years ago about I think EF Hutton, you know The one when EF Hutton speaks, everybody listens?
Well with composites Minaret is EF Hutton to me, so I found a plexus kit with a manual push stick, sort of like the two part epoxies you buy at the box store. I’m going to give the Plexus a try, but still will sand the area clean on both.

Nice, do you have a link where you got the kit?

[a64pilot]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZXY3MV4...511148547&sr=1

However just go to Amazon if that is where you shop and search for plexus adhesive kits, there are kits with guns, kits that have an adapter for a caulking gun, and ones like this one that is just manual, there are also 5 min kits, which I assume is like 5 min epoxy as in fast setting etc.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

... the use of hot glue to hold it in place. I have bonded several small wooden blocks to the hull for running wiring and have been using 5200, which is aggravating cause it’s a couple of days before 5200 fully sets up and a small bit of hot glue in the middle would be a whole lot better than trying to hold it in place with duct tape.

I have used a few spots of 5-minute epoxy for this many times. Use the same thickeners you were going to use for the filleting with regular epoxy. The extra thickness means it will gel in less than 5 minutes, generally just long enough to get it positioned right. You'll need to work fast. AND you have not inserted a weak, non-compatible glue; the regular epoxy will bond with the green 5-minute epoxy.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I have used a few spots of 5-minute epoxy for this many times. Use the same thickeners you were going to use for the filleting with regular epoxy. The extra thickness means it will gel in less than 5 minutes, generally just long enough to get it positioned right. You'll need to work fast. AND you have not inserted a weak, non-compatible glue; the regular epoxy will bond with the green 5-minute epoxy.

For the record, what I call hot glue is industrial strength PU hot melt which cross links to achieve a bond strength higher than epoxy. However, done it with plain old hot glue from a 3M industrial gun (puts out glue so hot it's bubbling, got plenty of napalm scars on my hands from this). A small hot glue dot in the middle of the part, ring of methacrylate around it, second ring around the edge, no hot glue squeeze out. At least 90% of the faying surface is meth, not hot glue, even in a very small part like a click bond fastener. This can be done very very quickly on multiple small parts, and works just as well for heavy parts which would slide down the hull if you tried 5 min epoxy. Huge time saver on a new build or major refit. Plus it's a superior result due to much higher bond strength. Carl Schumacher agreed with this practice, we destructively tested a ton of bonded on click bond fasteners and fiberglass angle using pretty much every bonding system out there before settling on this method.


https://www.hotmelt.com/blogs/blog/p...e-pur-hot-melt

[minaret]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I got to thinking about it last night.
Remember the TV Commercial years ago about I think EF Hutton, you know The one when EF Hutton speaks, everybody listens?
Well with composites Minaret is EF Hutton to me, so I found a plexus kit with a manual push stick, sort of like the two part epoxies you buy at the box store. I’m going to give the Plexus a try, but still will sand the area clean on both.

Thanks for the respect, you know it's returned airman!


Hey, I don't know about you, but for me I'll pay an extra $20 in materials just to not have to prep sand one time. If it takes me one hour to prep sand thoroughly and clean up thoroughly, I've just spent way more than $20 of my clients money. You probably don't bill yourself at the same rate, but this should still pencil out for anyone with a nice clean boat interior which they would like to keep that way. Sanding or God forbid grinding inside is a nightmare!

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by minaret

No joke!

https://www.amazon.com/Plexus-Off-Wh.../dp/B007468MDU


Plexus was designed for fiberglass, hence no prep required (on bare glass, if there's a coating in the way it's gotta go). It actually melts the glass while wet and gets a chemical bond. Super fast bond time. I've used this on a lot of very high end builds, lots of high load fasteners or just cable tie holders get bonded to the inside of the hull in very hard to reach places. Circle of Plexus around the outside, dot of industrial hot glue in the middle, then you can reach with one hand way into the back of a deep dark hole and stick the item in question where it belongs, no matter how hard the access, and it will never come off (no prep in the back of a deep dark hole you can only reach with one hand is a huge bonus). Bond strength is way higher than any epoxy. Should be on the shelf at a marine supplier near you. There are cheap versions too, it's been discussed here before several times. Lots of different flavors of methacrylate out there. Look at the compatibility too, it will bond to damn near anything at all. Way more so than epoxy, which doesn't bond well to some common materials like vinylester for instance. You can even do click bond fittings on stainless steel or aluminum, it's like welding with chemicals.

:: Click Bond, Inc. ::


Six-ten is great if you already got it. But for future reference...

Wish I had read this a month ago! I have been using thickened epoxy to glue sections of PVC pipe to the hull in hard to reach places to run duplex wire. struggled with masking tape to hold them in place. could only reach with one hand. The Hot glue is the smartest method I have ever heard of for this chore. Never cease to amaze Minaret! thanks

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by minaret

Thanks for the respect, you know it's returned airman!


Hey, I don't know about you, but for me I'll pay an extra $20 in materials just to not have to prep sand one time. If it takes me one hour to prep sand thoroughly and clean up thoroughly, I've just spent way more than $20 of my clients money. You probably don't bill yourself at the same rate, but this should still pencil out for anyone with a nice clean boat interior which they would like to keep that way. Sanding or God forbid grinding inside is a nightmare!

Mineret,

With the plexus, I'm going to assume you still need to get to bare glass first before adhering it to a bulkhead or hullside? I do this with epoxy but I figured I would still ask. You did say no prep in hard to reach areas, so I assumed those areas are bare glass to start with.

Also, what have you found to be the easiest to sand/grind paint or gelcoat to bare glass the easiest and makes the least amount of work? Small dremel tool, sander, fein tool, side grinder?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

Wish I had read this a month ago! I have been using thickened epoxy to glue sections of PVC pipe to the hull in hard to reach places to run duplex wire. struggled with masking tape to hold them in place. could only reach with one hand. The Hot glue is the smartest method I have ever heard of for this chore. Never cease to amaze Minaret! thanks

Yeah, especially because methacrylate sticks to PVC (and most plastics) way better than just about anything else. Have used it to bond PVC fittings into fiberglass tanks, finger fillet no tabbing. Works great!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

Mineret,

With the plexus, I'm going to assume you still need to get to bare glass first before adhering it to a bulkhead or hullside? I do this with epoxy but I figured I would still ask. You did say no prep in hard to reach areas, so I assumed those areas are bare glass to start with.

Also, what have you found to be the easiest to sand/grind paint or gelcoat to bare glass the easiest and makes the least amount of work? Small dremel tool, sander, fein tool, side grinder?

Yep.


M12 cordless sander/polisher with the roloc disc on slow speed so it doesn't sling dust with a Fein Turbo II right on it. Coarse scotch brite 2" discs.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yep.


M12 cordless sander/polisher with the roloc disc on slow speed so it doesn't sling dust with a Fein Turbo II right on it. Coarse scotch brite 2" discs.

Thanks for this tip. I have been trying different things. Lately it's been a toss up between a pneumatic die grinder with a sanding disc, the Fein tool with a gold carbide grinder, or the dremel with a little flap disc. I try to have a vacuum when I can too. Glad I wasn't too far off than you! I'll check out those roloc disc too.

[a64pilot]

The Rolocs are good, just the 2” ones are in my opinion. A little small, but I guess it depends on use.
We used something like a Roloc in aircraft manufacturing and almost always on an angle die grinder. It was similar, but the part that was the nut so to speak was metal as was the piece on the chuck.

A die grinder is small and light, and for me the Hooka compressor runs one OK.