Stupid things boat builders do.

[John_Trusty]

I've cursed at my share of production boat shortcuts, like the infamous Catalina water heaters that require cutting out a section of the liner to replace. What I appreciate is the price point that some of the professionals here decry, that lead to the design choices... " and if you want to buy one you better bring a good bit over USD$1M to the table.". I'm grateful that someone invented the liner and thus simplified assembly and cheapened the boat cost. I'd much rather curse at the design choices on my boat than admire someone else's well-designed boat.

[Kettlewell]

I'm grateful that someone invented the liner and thus simplified assembly and cheapened the boat cost. I'd much rather curse at the design choices on my boat than admire someone else's well-designed boat.

Frankly, I'm not sure if the expensive custom boat has a better build than the assembly line boat. When lots of a particular boat are built they can work out many of the problems along the way. On the custom boat everything is being done for the first time. I've owned a couple of custom boats built by top boat yards and they had their share of quirks too. Today's boats have so many complicated systems built in that there are many more opportunities to commit building sins.

[MicHughV]

Whoa....and then you have the owners that fit a variety of aftermarket stuff.....wherever they can find space...invariably on top of original equipment, etc, etc.

I can tell some stories here about some of the stuff I've seen. Not what the boat builder did, but what owners have done...not sure whether to laugh or cry.

And that is just the " stuff". Next comes the DIY electrical wiring, which is a story all on it's own.

For sure....it's " buyer beware"

[kayakerChuck]

I had a 27' Tiara with twin engines. I think I bought the boat when she was 15 years old. The port engine's oil filter was original. It had never been changed.

I could see the filter, and I could touch the filter. I could not get anything like a wrench of any kind on the filter, and able to rotate. There was NO room. I had to lift the motor to get the filter off. Yes, I installed a remote oil filter kit. (In Tiara's defense, later boats got a bit of a re-design of the engine beds and stringers.)

She was not a cheap boat, and Tiara promised "easy service".

[gonesail]

to be fair .. my boat has a holding tank in the keel .. all downhill from the toilet. also the fuel tank is totally accessible and contained in a tray under the settee. it also has a deep dry bilge that could easily hold 4 batteries with no problem. that is some amazing technology

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Sorry, but no.

It’s one thing if you are talking a low market, price point, mass production boat. You do get what you pay for. This on I’m working on is well over 50 feet and if you want to buy one you better bring a good bit over USD$1M to the table.

Yes, designing a boat that works well is not just hard, it is damn hard. There are very, very few builder/designer teams who can consistently do it. But it can be done, and on boats built at significant volumes. The idea that stupid design should be forgiven because getting it right is “hard” is just nonsense.

Do you forgive basic design flaws on the airplane carrying you across an ocean because it’s hard to get perfect?

I didn’t say it is easy to design a boat. To the contrary, it’s very difficult as you imply which is the reason for my post earlier. Just because something is not easily accessible doesn’t equate to “stupid”.

While it’s easy to complain that an impeller or vent loop is in the “wrong” place generally doesn’t account for the reason why it’s where it is or the unintended consequence of how it affects other design considerations.

On our boat which isn’t a “production boat”, the design was a careful collaboration between the designer, builder and me. During that experience, it was plainly obvious to me how complex many seemingly easy build choices can be. That’s not “nonsense”.

But comparing a sailboat to a 787 or an A380 is.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

.......

I could see the filter, and I could touch the filter. I could not get anything like a wrench of any kind on the filter, and able to rotate. There was NO room. ......

It the aviation world, there is a saying - if you see the part or you can touch it, you have access. There is no requirement to be able to see and touch at the same time .

Maddening at times...

[Sailorichiban]

Hello All,
Hopefully you can redesign to your satisfaction and reconstruct successfully.

I have built many things in my life and most have involved some compromises due to various circumstances.

Access is a critical point in some cases, others not so much, deciding which is which is part of good design.

In one of the situations that presented a poor design , my solution was to provide a removable panel approximately 30x36”to provide better access to the engine room.
The manufacturer could have done it, but certainly that would have increased cost, and already the manufacturer had provided access to three sides, which normally would be enough. The fourth is such a convenience, which encourages perfect maintenance, and quick access in the event of an emergency.
I could go on, but you get the point.
Best to all !

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Because we all “know” how easy it is to build something containing an entire electrical system, heating and cooling system, sewage system, electronics array of systems, potable water plumbing system, power supply and distribution system, storage capacity and propulsion system, head, galley, bedrooms and salon into a (average). 40 foot long, 12 ft wide box.

“Everything is easy for the guy who doesn’t have to do it”

Were it a rectangular box, it might all become [almost] easy.

[GILow]

The fuel and water tanks in the IP38 seem to be a pretty extreme example of builder silliness.

A neighbour with an IP38 sprung a leak in the diesel tank, to get it out he has to demolish the water tank.

[MicHughV]

I built my first boat from the ground up. Having never tackled such a project before, I took great care in designing and laying out the interior exactly as I thought things should be.
In the process of building it, I changed my mind often as each new situation cropped up and it didn't take long before my carefully planned layout was tossed out the window due in part to various and sundry fittings and devices, equipment and the like, not fitting as they should.
At the end of it all, it was quite a mish-mash. It all worked, but access to some stuff was questionable.

Even in today's modern age, where one could lay out everything with the use of AutoCAD to the n th degree, there is bound to be some areas where one must fly by the seat of one's pants.

Boats, by their very shape are not conducive to careful and structural planning as there is a hardly a straight surface anywhere. Add in a pointy end on one side and a narrow end on the other, plus dip the whole thing in water and it's a complicated space to accommodate the many things placed inside a boat.

A good compromise would be some or other pill one could take to cause our arms to become rubber extensions

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Because we all “know” how easy it is to build something containing an entire electrical system, heating and cooling system, sewage system, electronics array of systems, potable water plumbing system, power supply and distribution system, storage capacity and propulsion system, head, galley, bedrooms and salon into a (average). 40 foot long, 12 ft wide box.

“Everything is easy for the guy who doesn’t have to do it”

You got it in one!

Time and again the self styled "experts" have told me (in a superior tone) how I should have done all sort of things but when I explain why I couldn't they get a confused look on their face and don't pursue the matter.

[carstenb]

I have often said that were the universe fair, the guys who designed many things on our boat would spend eternity accessing and changing various parts. As soon as they managed it, it would need changing again.

Ah the joy of thinking that that is how they would spend eternity..............

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Sorry, but no.


Do you forgive basic design flaws on the airplane carrying you across an ocean because it’s hard to get perfect?

The 727s were very noisy because of their outdated engine but did that stop us from flying in it? Everything is a compromise.

If they could build a perfect aircraft no airline could afford to buy it

[jjt5795]

While restoring our 1973 Columbia, i discovered the genoa track was't t-track but instead flat stainless with a teak spacer, 26 feet on each side. Yes, it was installed prior to putting the boat together. At least 1/3 of the 120+ thru bolts could only be accessed after cutting away portions of the hull liner. Seven years later and we still don't talk about it.

I have several more, but this one was the worst.