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Old 03-08-2020, 08:39   #1
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Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Hey Team,

I'm considering purchasing a project boat and I'm curious if anyone knows what these bumps just under the toe rail on the outside of the boat could be?

They're on both sides of the boat in the same places. I thought it could be osmotic blistering, but the symmetry across the boat has me thinking otherwise.

Anybody have any thoughts?
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:04   #2
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Kinda hard to tell, but is that a rub rail that has the bumps? I've heard about certain synthetics expanding in the heat of the sun, and if that was the case here perhaps there was no room for it to expand and they both buckled in the middle. Just a guess.
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:20   #3
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

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Kinda hard to tell, but is that a rub rail that has the bumps? I've heard about certain synthetics expanding in the heat of the sun, and if that was the case here perhaps there was no room for it to expand and they both buckled in the middle. Just a guess.
So the bumper rail IS buckled, but only because the hull underneath seems to be bulging out at these spots as well.

It honestly looks very organic and I would think that it is blistering if it weren't symmetrical on both sides.
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:25   #4
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

We'll need more photos then I guess, a bit closer and on the inside too if you can see the hull there in those places from the inside. Large osmotic lumps usually occur under the waterline, and those look unusually large.


edit:

I don't know what kind of boat this is. Is there evidence of any other damage on the boat? Was it on the hard for a long time, or laying on its side in a yard? It looks to me like there are 3 main lumps, is it that way on the other side too?
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:30   #5
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

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We'll need more photos then I guess, a bit closer and on the inside too if you can see the hull there in those places from the inside. Large osmotic lumps usually occur under the waterline, and those look unusually large.

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm going on a test sail whenever we get a good weekend day of wind. I'll take some more pictures and post them when I'm next on the boat.

Thanks for your thoughts!
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:39   #6
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Are you in the UK? Is this a UK boat? The cockpit and deck design remind me of some photos of UK boats I have seen. I don't know those boats but there are a bunch of folks here who do.
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:56   #7
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Can't really see, but if the hull is bulged out it's water ingress through the toe rail or rub rail and subsequent swelling. I would NOT buy that boat.
The other option is it's a hard glassed interior structure that has bulged the hull as the hull fiberglass shrank over time. Either way, not a good thing.
The problem is even if he gives you the boat free, if you put a bunch of money in it, it's still unsellable.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:07   #8
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Hard to tell but to me it just looks like screws under the rub rail are backing out, bulging the the rub rail.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:07   #9
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

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Can't really see, but if the hull is bulged out it's water ingress through the toe rail or rub rail and subsequent swelling. I would NOT buy that boat.
The other option is it's a hard glassed interior structure that has bulged the hull as the hull fiberglass shrank over time. Either way, not a good thing.
The problem is even if he gives you the boat free, if you put a bunch of money in it, it's still unsellable.
That's another possibility I suppose. Do you live in an area where the temps get below freezing sometimes? Perhaps water got down in there, wherever 'there' is and froze, popping the hull out there?
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Old 03-08-2020, 13:18   #10
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

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Are you in the UK? Is this a UK boat? The cockpit and deck design remind me of some photos of UK boats I have seen. I don't know those boats but there are a bunch of folks here who do.
Hey Don,

The boat is a Shipman 28 from Ireland. Definitely from that side of the pond!
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Old 03-08-2020, 13:54   #11
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

It looks like water intrusion to me, as well. The reason it is symmetrical is that the stanchions and bolts are not properly sealed on either side!

If we are correct, who think it is water intrusion, while wet, the water gets in, affected by gravity, and flows to wherever it stops. But, it is trapped there, and when a freeze occurs, it freezes, too, and expands, opening the area further. Timber affected will start to rot, wicking further leaks along the timber.

Sorry, mate.

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Old 03-08-2020, 14:15   #12
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

I wasn't familiar with the Shipman, but I see Olle Enderlein designed her so that is a very good pedigree. I bet she is built well. I'd be inclined to say, ok, so what? There's bulges. Is it leaking? Is it weak or flexing? Looks to be a nice design IMO worthy of attention and possible repairs. My bet is you could probably sail her for another 30 years and never notice the bulges again.
There's a club for these:
https://shipman28.dk/baaden.html
They have some good info on the boat and maybe they have more info about hull construction too.
I'd just sail her and see what happens!
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Old 03-08-2020, 14:39   #13
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

In your test sail just sail upwind and watch the rail where the block is. I doubt there will be much to notice, but maybe. I assume there may be a liner in the boat that will make it hard to see in there but you should be able to see the bolts for the track in there. Maybe you can see evidence of leakage. You can use it of course in negotiating the price, but it seems to be a nice old boat that could be repaired if needed, without much drama I think, with glass work inside to strengthen that area of the hull/deck joint, and outside for cosmetics. If it were me I would not consider it a deal breaker on the face of it at all. But then I am a naive optimist and I own an old boat with (a few) issues, but none of which keep me from sailing (right now.)

edit:
On further scrutiny of the photo it looks like maybe the the hull to deck joint is the high bulwark, something similar to mine. In which case, if the water got down into the joint and stopped in the upside-down "T" of the gap in there and froze and expanded, then certainly the hull to deck joint will be compromised along in there and will need to be repaired. You may be able to see a bulge downward from the joint inside or it may have popped the fiberglass down from, and off, the joint exposing the underside of the joint. It could be possible to then to reinforce it and bolt it back together in that area. Anyway, it's hard to tell, more photos would be nice. I am really curious to find out what you discover.
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Old 03-08-2020, 14:59   #14
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Does that rub rail hide a hull to deck joint?
Looks like the pre-'75 boats had the high bulwarks. I was thinking that is where the joint is but I could be wrong.
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Old 03-08-2020, 15:32   #15
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Re: Strange Bumps Just Below the Toe Rail

Looking in zoomed - the red line has no bumps. Hence the topside seems OK.



I would guess the rubber streak stretched over time and now it has excessive length hence the bumps.


???


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