Stemhead inspection and bolt replacement

[wholybee]

The bolts for my stemhead fitting are accessible from the chain locker. Very difficult to reach, but I am able to get a wrench on the nut, although I can't turn it from the inside. I could feel the nuts were rusty, so I am replacing them, and removing the fitting itself for cleaning and inspection.

The first bolt came out surprisingly easy, and appeared to have no sealant on it. Which is my first question. Should there be? The nut is in the chain locker, and subject to a lot of salt water. Because of access, I don't think there is anyway the nut side could be sealed well. So, is it better to just let it be without so that any water that gets in doesn't get stuck there permanently? I would cover the bolt with a snot load of Tef-gel, just no sealant.

The next 2 bolts came out with a lot of difficulty. Soaked in penetrating oil for days. Applied heat with a heat gun, then wax, and repeat. Use a hammer type impact driver. Repeat wax. Once moving, they came out without too much trouble, the biggest issue is that the bit kept slipping from the screw. I was using a 2 foot breaker bar. These bolts had a crumbled white powder on the threads, which might have been sealant at one time.

The last screw so far has defeated me. I can turn it about and 1/8th turn each way, no further. I worked it back and forth trying to loosen it an entire day (taking breaks of course, and repeating heat and wax) until my hand was in pain from trying (and mostly failing) to hold the bit in place. I am tempted to attempt drilling it, but fear that if that fails I am totally screwed(pun intended). If I had a welder I might consider welding a nut to the head of the screw. But I don't so that isn't an option. I don't think it is even super tight, I just can't keep the bit from slipping.

So, sealant or not? And any other ideas on the last screw?

[Nekton73]

Can you grind the nut off the back? Mine are similar and although tight I could probably get a grinder wheel in there vertically and slice off the sides of the nut, or at least enough of them that I could knock the rest off with a cold chisel. Once that's gone you should be able to back out the screw.
Another option is to weld a nut onto the screw head. Not easy if you aren't set up to weld to stainless, but basically if you have a screw or bolt head that is stripped then putting a nut on top and welding it on through the centre of the nut often allows you to get a socket on there and apply more torque. The head also tends to break any corrosion free.

[Bowdrie]

Ah yes, that style of fastening technique is quite common.
For the company it was always cheaper to have hardware fabricated that used simple countersunk holes drilled rather that have square holes punched that accept a carriage bolt, (carriage bolts also adding to costs) and a two-man crew could work real fast before the interior got installed, and sealant clean-up goes faster.
You might end up needing another person on the inside.
If everything is properly sealed on the outside there is no need for sealants on the inside, but a good coat of some kind of anti-corrosion stuff won't hurt.
Nylock nuts? for most applications they're the devil's plaything.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

Can you grind the nut off the back? Mine are similar and although tight I could probably get a grinder wheel in there vertically and slice off the sides of the nut, or at least enough of them that I could knock the rest off with a cold chisel. Once that's gone you should be able to back out the screw.
Another option is to weld a nut onto the screw head. Not easy if you aren't set up to weld to stainless, but basically if you have a screw or bolt head that is stripped then putting a nut on top and welding it on through the centre of the nut often allows you to get a socket on there and apply more torque. The head also tends to break any corrosion free.

I can just barely get a wrench on it. Not a chance of a grinder or a chisel. It is the full extension of my arm to reach it. Once the wrench is on, there isn't enough room to even turn it, the wrench jams in place when I turn the screw from the other side. Makes it a one person job - if I can turn the screw from the outside.

I am not setup for welding. If I found someone that was, could it be done safely without damaging the fiberglass?

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Ah yes, that style of fastening technique is quite common.
For the company it was always cheaper to have hardware fabricated that used simple countersunk holes drilled rather that have square holes punched that accept a carriage bolt, (carriage bolts also adding to costs) and a two-man crew could work real fast before the interior got installed, and sealant clean-up goes faster.
You might end up needing another person on the inside.
If everything is properly sealed on the outside there is no need for sealants on the inside, but a good coat of some kind of anti-corrosion stuff won't hurt.
Nylock nuts? for most applications they're the devil's plaything.

There isn't enough room to turn the nuts from the inside. A wrench just jams in the bow, so it is a one person job from the outside. Also, to be clear, the nuts are accessible from the chain locker on deck, not the below deck locker accessible from the vee berth. That locker gets filled with water when I take water over the bow. So that was leading to my sealant question. The inside nuts will at times get submerged when water is in the locker.

Not Nylocks, just plain hexnuts with a split washer and a flat washer.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by wholybee

There isn't enough room to turn the nuts from the inside. A wrench just jams in the bow, so it is a one person job from the outside.

You use a socket with an extension, or a socket with extension and U-joint, maybe two U-joints, (you wrap some electrical tape around them so they're not "floppy".
You need another person, one of you will have to be on the outside to hold the head from turning.
If the inside is too badly corroded to turn the nut, then it's plan B.
If you can't drill from the outside, get a Dremel and cut away the head of that flathead machine screw and drive it thru to the inside.
You know, on parts like that sometimes it's better to say, "looks be dam**d" and use hex-head bolts.

[Nekton73]

Access from the top only changes things for sure. I can get at mine through the v-berth which is why I made that suggestion.
Now I'm thinking impact gun, either electric or pneumatic, on the nut on the inside and a second person outside holding the screw head. Assuming you have or could find these tools of course.
Yes the nut could be welded on without damaging the fiberglass. The application of heat would be quick and directly in the center, just long enough to fill the hole of the nut.

Another thought is can you find an old style brace drill and the beefiest slot driver head possible? You can often find them cheap at antique stores, second hand stores, etc. Bigger the better. I have done a lot of work on old houses and discovered they are a much easier way to remove old slot screws because you can apply so much pressure directly into the screw while turning. I've actually used them on my boat too for the same type of large screws you have pictured which were holding a t-track onto my boom for a reefing car. I didn't have a bit big enough so I cut the head off a large slot screw driver and flattened the shank with a grinder so the jaws of the brace would grip it and not slip. Worked well.

[Nekton73]

Or if you can find one of these it might work since you can jam the wrench on the nut from the inside. A couple of good whacks would probably free it up. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/m...rsible-6-piece

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

Access from the top only changes things for sure. I can get at mine through the v-berth which is why I made that suggestion.
Now I'm thinking impact gun, either electric or pneumatic, on the nut on the inside and a second person outside holding the screw head. Assuming you have or could find these tools of course.
Yes the nut could be welded on without damaging the fiberglass. The application of heat would be quick and directly in the center, just long enough to fill the hole of the nut.

Another thought is can you find an old style brace drill and the beefiest slot driver head possible? You can often find them cheap at antique stores, second hand stores, etc. Bigger the better. I have done a lot of work on old houses and discovered they are a much easier way to remove old slot screws because you can apply so much pressure directly into the screw while turning. I've actually used them on my boat too for the same type of large screws you have pictured which were holding a t-track onto my boom for a reefing car. I didn't have a bit big enough so I cut the head off a large slot screw driver and flattened the shank with a grinder so the jaws of the brace would grip it and not slip. Worked well.
Attachment 295564

A bit brace may or may not help. I have used them before. The thing is, not only do I need a lot of pressure, but to hold the bit itself from slipping sideways. I did just order another drag link bit. Thinking after working 3 screws and repeated slipping it might be damaged just enough to not hold as well as it could on the 4th. So maybe a new bit will help.
Flathead screws are a terrible invention. Pure evil.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

Or if you can find one of these it might work since you can jam the wrench on the nut from the inside. A couple of good whacks would probably free it up. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/m...rsible-6-piece

I have that tool. I used it on the outside and beat the crap out if it. Nothing. Which really surprised me, as I can turn it an 1/8 turn without that tool, but the impact didn't turn it even that.

[maine-cruiser]

If you can get a wrench on the nut then perhaps you can get a nut splitter on it.

Bill

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by maine-cruiser

If you can get a wrench on the nut then perhaps you can get a nut splitter on it.

Bill

I might be able to get that on. Will a nut splitter work on a stainless steel nut? Some Internet sleuthing suggests not, but isn't conclusive. If I deform the nut but can't split it, then what?

Have you split at 3/4" stainless nut before?

[Madehn]

+1 on the nut breaker and yes you can split a 3/4 inch nut Get a good one. One of the cheapies will just deform and be a mess. Might seem expensive but do it right and have a tool forever.

[fourlyons]

I don't understand your concern about drilling the head off from theoutside, I think you will find it easier than you think. Just buy some good bits, use a lot of even pressure at slow speed, and a lubricant. You might also consider stepping up in sizes. Maybe 1/4", then 3/8", etc.

[maine-cruiser]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I might be able to get that on. Will a nut splitter work on a stainless steel nut? Some Internet sleuthing suggests not, but isn't conclusive. If I deform the nut but can't split it, then what?

Have you split at 3/4" stainless nut before?

Mine is a small cheap one and I have done 1/4" and 3/8" SS nuts but it was probably the limit of the tool.

If you could drill into the side face of the nut with a small bit and then progressively use larger bits you could accomplish the same result as the splitter. I've use the cobalt drills from Home Depot and Ace hardware to drill through 1/4" SS plate with some water as lube.

Bill