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Old 12-02-2021, 14:00   #16
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
Rather than ditching the Diesel completely consider replacing it with an electric motor, lots of solar panels and batteries. It won't let you motor for long or for long distances (because you just can't get enough solar panels on a boat to do so) but it would be enough to get in and out of your dock until you can get the sails up and shut it off. Plus, if you have access to power dockside, you can recharge while tied up at a fraction of the cost, noise, pollution, and maintenance requirements of a Diesel engine. A guy here did just that and he's very happy - but he's a die-hard sailor that will sail in conditions most of us would motor in.
I have a small 4PS outboard that can push me in and out of anchorages and marinas.

Keeping the diesel is more related to avoiding big ships in the north sea and lee shores in the canal before Biscay. The diesel that came with the boat has 20PS.

Beeing becalmed i m fine with it. I sculled my last boat at 1 to 2 knots for 8 to 10 hours a day for weeks at a time, having no motor and the mast down last year.

I can very well see myself travelling on wind and oars only in a near future (maybe with the outboard to avoid asking for lifts in and out ports).

Its just that right now, i am preety much a begginer with the ropes. I need to build up some confidence and gather some experience under sail before y decide to ditch the diesel and stay with the outboard only.

Also, i live on about 100 euro a month (some times more, some times less). So i use what i find. In this case, i ve got a nice outboard. Last year i stayed only two times in paying places, for a night each time. I normaly tie the boat in not paying places.

Although i am open for solar (and i have a friend who works with it and has loads of partially broken ones who still work fine). He offered me panels and regulators. The batteries would be the issue, to gather enough accumulators. It may happen one day. I do not discard it.

I like the relative silence of electric motors, but i m not familiar with the technology. Same with diesels. I guess the more i learn, the more i can experiment with those things.

I like working with relatively primitive technologies that i can repair or do myself since i almost never have money to pay others to do stuff for me.
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Old 12-02-2021, 14:28   #17
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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it must have been interesting moving about on the cambered cabin top on the small boat.
Why so much camber?
Quite apart from making it hard to move about you lose internal space and reserve bouyancy (when excessively held over).

If I wanted to increase the height of a cabin on a steel boat I would seriously consider using aluminium (the join is fairly easy).
You would then have the advantage of less weight and fewer corrosion problems while still being able to weld all fittings (turning blocks, cleats etc)
It's easier, cleaner and quicker to work with than steel and needs no paint other than non-slip areas externally.
The chamber was because i used some not so great reclaimed wood for the members and the structural integrity relied therefore in the form.

It was much more spacious than the original cabin (which some previous owner cuted away before abandoning the boat).

It was indeed fun moving around, but i wouldnt like to have to go forward on a sea way. 😬

Since the planned rig was a balanced chinese junk, there was (in theory) no need to go to the foredeck to adjust the jib.

But yeah. To drop and retrieve the anchor, and to cleat in the many locks required a little bit of balance keeping habilities 😂

The metal boat i will build a frame to keep the structural integrity, not relying so much on the form this time. Just extend the hull and weld a flatish top. For antisleeping some epoxy with sand will do it.

The advantages you mention on the aluminuim are very true. I have a friend who lives and sails an aluminium boat. And it is great boat indeed.

I just happen to have access to steel plates, and only know how to weld steel. Aluminium welding is a dark art to me, that i would like to learn some time, but not while modifying the boat.

Also having aluminium and steel in a wet and salty environment i would be worry about exchange of electrons between the two. I would need to provide a very good isolation between the two.

How would you solve the joint between the two? If doable, i would consider giving it a try.

The steel deck welds well with the steel hull. Although its true that i will require more maintenance, and will be heavier.

On the other hand, being the hull already and old steel hull, i will still have to live with the paint and the metal brush. Im fine with that.

But i am genuily curious about your propoasal of aluminium. I just cant imagine a good structurally sound union between the two materials.
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Old 12-02-2021, 15:56   #18
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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Fxarcher i cant see your pic, it sounds like a beast of a boat. I once sailed for some months as crew in a 64 feet sailboat. Told myself: one day... my boat will be smaller ����

Building stuff is what i enjoy the most, together with traveling.

I like metal. Feels safe. Easy to repair. No worries about scratches.

Please explain me how to see the pictures of your boat. I m learning a lot by seing other peoples work. Many good ideas to get inspiration from.

Thanks for your imput and thank you for paving the road. I will keep on doing my thing for as long as i can.
I am not sure you can learn anything since these were commercial Fishing vessels. I build several of these boats in Port Hueneme CA in the early 80'
Here are some pictures. The boat lifted by the Crane was too heavy (240 000 pounds) for the local Crane operator to lift. So we made arrangements for that Barge Crane which was temporarily in the harbor to lift us into the water. It had come from the Alaskan Pipe Line project and had a 14 000 Ton capacity. So it could easily reach way across a wooden pier (more than 150 feet) that we were not allowed to sit on because of the weight of our boat. It was quite a sight to see the operator, all 450 pounds of him sitting there in the Glass cupola with four big exhaust stacks on either side of him screaming away. I was on board the boat to attach the lift cables and decided to ride the lift in order to attach the boat to the pier once we were in the water. I did not know this, but once you lift anything on a Barge Crane you can not stop the lift. The barge sways and might come back smashing the load onto the ground. So, as per standard operating procedure, the Crane operator ripped the boat off the ground. It seemed more than 100 feet or so. Just prior to the lift I had a sneaking suspicion that we had possibly miss-calculated the Center of gravity of the Boat as it sat in the cradle. So we attached a 5 Ton Com-along at the last-minute in order to keep it from slipping out of the steel cradle. It reached from the crane Hook to the Bow of the boat via a chain. When we were ripped off the ground and it looked as if the Operator had every intention of catapulting the load across the harbor, the Come-along steadily slipped and stopped only at the last link. They said later that my screams drowned out the monstrous Diesel's driving the Crane.
Anyway, I have some pretty good ideas on how to build a Steel Boat and keep it afloat as all my boats are still working the Bering Sea. To begin with I am a huge advocate of Keel Cooling and Sea-chest instead of 20 through hulls. Let me know how I can help.
All the best....Sorry about the picture rotation
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Old 12-02-2021, 19:30   #19
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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I am not sure you can learn anything since these were commercial Fishing vessels. I build several of these boats in Port Hueneme CA in the early 80'
Here are some pictures. The boat lifted by the Crane was too heavy (240 000 pounds) for the local Crane operator to lift. So we made arrangements for that Barge Crane which was temporarily in the harbor to lift us into the water. It had come from the Alaskan Pipe Line project and had a 14 000 Ton capacity. So it could easily reach way across a wooden pier (more than 150 feet) that we were not allowed to sit on because of the weight of our boat. It was quite a sight to see the operator, all 450 pounds of him sitting there in the Glass cupola with four big exhaust stacks on either side of him screaming away. I was on board the boat to attach the lift cables and decided to ride the lift in order to attach the boat to the pier once we were in the water. I did not know this, but once you lift anything on a Barge Crane you can not stop the lift. The barge sways and might come back smashing the load onto the ground. So, as per standard operating procedure, the Crane operator ripped the boat off the ground. It seemed more than 100 feet or so. Just prior to the lift I had a sneaking suspicion that we had possibly miss-calculated the Center of gravity of the Boat as it sat in the cradle. So we attached a 5 Ton Com-along at the last-minute in order to keep it from slipping out of the steel cradle. It reached from the crane Hook to the Bow of the boat via a chain. When we were ripped off the ground and it looked as if the Operator had every intention of catapulting the load across the harbor, the Come-along steadily slipped and stopped only at the last link. They said later that my screams drowned out the monstrous Diesel's driving the Crane.
Anyway, I have some pretty good ideas on how to build a Steel Boat and keep it afloat as all my boats are still working the Bering Sea. To begin with I am a huge advocate of Keel Cooling and Sea-chest instead of 20 through hulls. Let me know how I can help.
All the best....Sorry about the picture rotation
Impressive. I asked myself many times while passing along these huge boats how these people solve the logistic an operational issues that arise from the sheer size.
It seems that some times it takes a little luck and nerves of steel (pun intended).
The scale and gauge of the platting, as well as the pressure and loads these beasts work are on a way different league.

But we have in common that we need to keep rust at bay and water away.

Through hulls i m not fond off. Thats why i took the toilet and kitchen from my briefly owned first metal boat. And i will do the same on the one i own now. One more reason to eventually also ditch the inbord diesel.

A sailor i admire that goes by the name Kris Larsen, told me that he usually gets his epoxy tar from the guysmaintaining the bog boats.

His engineless 34 feet steel bilge keel junk rig uses that same product to keep rust at bay.

Kris has been doing some extensive and intensive navigation for the last 30 something years.

Not unlike Alberto Torroba, another exceptional sailor i admire and i m lucky enough to have as a friend. Alberto is on the other extreme of the expectrum on the matter of size and instruments needed to do extensive voyaging.

I guess what we all have in common is our love for the sea, and that we are all part of the picture out there. After all, no matter how big or small our boat is, no matter how big or how engineless our motor is, we are all out there at the mercy of what mother nature decides to throw at us.

We can just prepare for the whorst and hope for the best.

One of the things i try to learn about the big boats, is how they see us (or not), where, in which pattern and how fast they move (to avoid getting in their way, that is).

I m also fond of some times taking shelter in the same places these guys do, since the harbour masters tend to let me sneak for free to wait for a tide or make some emergency repairs when i need to.

All things that owners of expensive luxury plastic boats dont like me doing near them, like welding and polishing and painting are not a problem near the big metal commercial boats, cargo and fishing ones. Also these guys have quite precise weather forecast every time i ask them.

About keel cooling. The diesel that came on my boat, a Bukh 20, cools itself directly trough the sea water.

Which implies two trough hulls, lots of salty water comming in contact with the motor, and the intakes being exposed to growth, debris and ice blockages.

If i would keep it after my initial voyage in the north sea, it would be for security reasons (to avoid a lee shore in step choppy sees) and also for eventually doing some high latitude explorations (for which a motor is a great asset).

Could you explain or resume the basics of keel cooling and why you think is best practice? For the name of it,sounds like something i could try if i decide to keep my diesel. Also, how that system could be adapted to a small sailboat like mine.

I will google a little bit on the subject. This forum is a grest source of inspiration and helps me shed lights on different approachs to messing around on boats.

Thank you for your pictures and please keep sharing ideas, so i can incorporate more views on the metal boat subject.
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Old 12-02-2021, 20:26   #20
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

On some boats a very simple way of raising the cabin height is to lower the cabin floor, I got another couple of inches doing this, simple, easy, and reuses the existing floor so no cost.
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Old 12-02-2021, 20:52   #21
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

We have 2 steel boats, a 33’er and a 44’er.

You do not say how big, how long, you hull is.

We just replaced the companionway cover on our 44’er, it was badly rusted. I went back with 304 stainless for the deck replacement and the hatch cover. But we have 6’ 6” of standing head room below already.

I know the Badger and Wylo. I saw Iron Bark, a Wylo, on Curiacou 2 years ago when it was for sale. I suppose you know the connection between the two designs and of Annie Hill?

My 33 has very wide side decks with little camber, the 44 has narrower (but still abnormally wide) side decks but with more camber. The wide flatish decks are far nicer to move around in than the cambered and narrower decks. I feel more secure on the smaller boat.

It is hard to imagine how I would feel about a Badger type boat. In the one hand it would be like having extremely wide side decks, good. On the other the transition to and from the cabin top becomes much more difficult, it makes having a dodger more difficult (how do you get through it to go forward?), and then you are that much higher and subject to more roll.

The wide decks on the small boat mean a narrow cabin ceiling below. I do not find that a problem because the boat has pilot berths and settees on either side. The coach roof is over these areas where I cant walk anyway, and provides a convenient handhold when moving about below; there is a clever moulding around the deck/side joint that provides continuous hand holds.

On the 44 with the more narrow side decks you have the sense of spaciousness, but these hand holds are missing. It is not a big problem, but a consideration.

The other thing how you get forward to work anchor gear etc. Having to climb over the coach roof twice could be an issue. Especially when docking single handed. I find I sometimes need to move quickly back forth, much easier on the wide side decks. Perhaps you want to include a second companionway to the fore deck?

It is an interesting proposition with no very clear answer. At this time I would lean away from the high flush deck, keep what you have.

But it is your boat and your work. So have fun.

Also, we have friends with a steel hull, wooden coach roof, and aluminum cockpit. It believe it is a booted connection with some kind of isolation between the steel and aluminum. Topper Hermanson was the builder. Maybe that will give you a lead. Otherwise I have heard of the steel/aluminum join being done with a special explosive to join the metals. Ot a Do It Yourself kind of thing.
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Old 13-02-2021, 01:11   #22
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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On some boats a very simple way of raising the cabin height is to lower the cabin floor, I got another couple of inches doing this, simple, easy, and reuses the existing floor so no cost.
That was the first thing i thought when i realized i could not stand confirtably inside.

But the floor in this boat is already really low, wooden planks on some sort of welded stringers that give stiffness and compartments to the bilge.

The overall interior layout looks very nice on first glance, with fancy woods and carpets.

But in reallity, its quite cramped and dark, because of the colors they used and the structures they installed.

The galley has two fires but its not gimbaled, the kitchen sink is shallow and in an akward position (partially under the cockpit seats).

The same goes for the head, the berths and the storing areas in general.

Looks preety, but its not well thought for daily use.

The portlights are from thin polycarbonat. I already reglued them with sika and screws because they where leaking badly. There are now dry, but i m not sure how good they would fair taking green water over the beam. I prefer to have smaller and fewer portholes, but from thick poly.

There is not one thing that is really bad about the interior layout of the boat, but many little things together that make it somehow not for the use i intend to give to it.

What i envision as a liveaboard who will be on the move, is a complete refit and new layout, starting by increasing the inner volume of the cabin.

The works i would takcle one by one like i do on my travels: in different ports and pauses on the way. Like a work in progress, not something that i finish after months and years of working on the hard, but more like small steps i accomplish while on the move.

Build a simple gimbaled fire that accomodates one small 3kg campingaz (ready available here in europe) and later on an alcohol stove (i built many alcohol stoves over the years and i find them great). I need no two gas fires with long pipes instalation leaded to the cockpit lockers thatbi can not use in a seaway.

Keep the storage areas with good lids that wont come off in case if a knockdown.

Modify the present quarter berth and cockpit lockers and general cockpit layout in order to create dedicated storage areas for my many tools and give better access to work on the motor, which at the moment is super cramped and not inviting to work with.

Weld some hand holds to move around comfortably on a seaway.

Install some confortable berths with clothes on both port and starboard. At the moment the starboard berth is way too short since the ackward big galley takes over that vital space.

Get rid of the head and keep the good old bucket in place avoiding the inconvenience of broken, smelly and stuffed pumps and pipes, and unnecesary troughulls.

The space i achieved in my previous five meter boat was such, that i could practice yoga, invite friends for a jam session, cook, and of course have the ocassional girlfriend overnight.

The way i achieved such space was by creating dedicated storage areas on the lower part of the boat that at the same time generated a big, uninterrumpted flat area that could be use for anything and everything.

Using old yoga and camping mats for isolation and cushion also doubled as a very comfortable way to sit and lay almost anywhere you wanted in the boat.

I even had a hammock that i could hang at times for sleep when for example, the boat would seat in uneven ground at a low tide.

This new boat is twice as big and requires one to walk around instead of crawling, but until now it is not remotely as coozy and livable as the old little boat i used to live and travel with.

Small spaces should be flexible in their use, thats my philosophy for the spaces i live. Boats are small spaces by default.

But small doesnt neccesary means cramped.

We can make them cramped if we accomodate too many rigid one-way-structures in the little space. I guess that also applies to life 😂😂😂

Or we can make them fun, fluid and flexible by accomodating clever multipourpose structures.

I always prefer a tarp over a tent. Because a tarp can be configurated in many different ways according to the circumstances. If you add a hammock to that, then you have a world of possibilities that allows you for many different configurations according to the weather, the geography and the place you are camping/dwelling.

I lived in a tarp and tent configuration for the last 20 years or so, and its my prefered way to live for extended periods of time.

That allowed me to travel the world basically by feet, kayak and bicycle, without worrying about money or where i would sleep that night.

In my transition to boating i realize that i keep that style to which i am so used.

People living in appartments and houses tend to replicate their houses and appartments livestyles on board.

Myself, being used the camping style of life, replicate that way of life on board.

I guess thats akso why i go for the cabin extension. Not only for the standing height, but for the overall space.

I want to generate a space where i can do all the stuff i like doing, from backing pizzas in a pan to welcoming a bunch of people for a day sail. For crossing oceans with a loved one to spending a winter alone surrounded by nature somewhere quiet and cold.
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Old 13-02-2021, 02:07   #23
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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We have 2 steel boats, a 33’er and a 44’er.

You do not say how big, how long, you hull is.

We just replaced the companionway cover on our 44’er, it was badly rusted. I went back with 304 stainless for the deck replacement and the hatch cover. But we have 6’ 6” of standing head room below already.

I know the Badger and Wylo. I saw Iron Bark, a Wylo, on Curiacou 2 years ago when it was for sale. I suppose you know the connection between the two designs and of Annie Hill?

My 33 has very wide side decks with little camber, the 44 has narrower (but still abnormally wide) side decks but with more camber. The wide flatish decks are far nicer to move around in than the cambered and narrower decks. I feel more secure on the smaller boat.

It is hard to imagine how I would feel about a Badger type boat. In the one hand it would be like having extremely wide side decks, good. On the other the transition to and from the cabin top becomes much more difficult, it makes having a dodger more difficult (how do you get through it to go forward?), and then you are that much higher and subject to more roll.

The wide decks on the small boat mean a narrow cabin ceiling below. I do not find that a problem because the boat has pilot berths and settees on either side. The coach roof is over these areas where I cant walk anyway, and provides a convenient handhold when moving about below; there is a clever moulding around the deck/side joint that provides continuous hand holds.

On the 44 with the more narrow side decks you have the sense of spaciousness, but these hand holds are missing. It is not a big problem, but a consideration.

The other thing how you get forward to work anchor gear etc. Having to climb over the coach roof twice could be an issue. Especially when docking single handed. I find I sometimes need to move quickly back forth, much easier on the wide side decks. Perhaps you want to include a second companionway to the fore deck?

It is an interesting proposition with no very clear answer. At this time I would lean away from the high flush deck, keep what you have.

But it is your boat and your work. So have fun.

Also, we have friends with a steel hull, wooden coach roof, and aluminum cockpit. It believe it is a booted connection with some kind of isolation between the steel and aluminum. Topper Hermanson was the builder. Maybe that will give you a lead. Otherwise I have heard of the steel/aluminum join being done with a special explosive to join the metals. Ot a Do It Yourself kind of thing.
You bring sone interesting considerations here.

My boat jas an overall length of 29 feet. The cabin raises not much over the decks, maybe 30 centimeters (1feet?). I would raise that no more than 40 centimeters total. Not that of a big step.

But its true that the roll effect is accentuated. I had that experience on my small boat last year, when the waves of a big pusher boat got me on the stern a little bit on the beam. I felt i was shortly before capzising, although maybe it was just a feeling, it was scary. When i later built a normal cockpit (by cutting off the last third of the cabin) sitting lower helped a lot with feeling safer.

So it is a consideration. The one from the rolling effect.

The dodger would also be compromised, but not that much, since i can still use a dodger that cover until the original cockpit coamings, or maybe a little less. I ve sailed once in the northsea, and the boat had no dodger, and it was wet, very wet.

But i guess even a small dodger on the companionway gives a lot of protection compared with no dodger.

Yes! Iron Bark, the guy who spend a few winters on the ice. I found his story very interesting. Annie Hill spent also a winter there with him i believe. I read some articles she wrote about junk rigged boats, she is a strong proposer if that rig.

I like to see people who know what they want and go for it, and try and see what works for them.

Yeah. I m one of them i feel. Although i would never propose anyone to follow me in what i do 😂😂😂

The hand holds are a must inside and outside the boat. I really dont like the small volume inside the cabin. The cabin trunknis just too narrow, less than a meter and a half, for a 3 meters of beam, its lots of unused space to move around. I like moving around in different ways, not just a corridor. I feel cramped and limited on the cabin as it is. Cant change what i feel i guess 😂

To move back and fort on deck, when docking i find it relatively easy on a small boat. It was easy in Kasha and i feel its easy on the new boat. Kustba few steps in one direction or the other.

For me a key aspect of docking is going at the minimum speed that allows for steering and having the lines ready beforehand. Since i travel singlehanded most if the time, i find it easy to move around on my boats, kind of know the exact length of each step forward and backwards, the exact strength i need to apply here and there to push and pull, the behaviour and response of the underwater and top profiles of the boat to currents and wind. etc.

Is like the brain gets used to calculating variables and the more you sail your boat, the easier it becomes.

Last summer i helped a friend to move his 38 meter, 700 ton peniche up and down the river in Belgium. Speaking about narrow, slippery sidecks, heavy metal boats. Super stressful, dangerous task!

Smaller boats feel generaly safer because the dimentions are more in the human scale. The bigger, taller and heavier they get, the more things can go wrong very bad very fast. Thats my feeling.

On the other hand, the sensation of a small metal boat cutting trough the chop in contrast to the tinny plastic nut i used to move around in... the metao boat feels way safer and less exposed.

My cabin trunk is also badly rusted in some spots (the previous owner did a magnificient work clogging the scups of the cover for the slidding hatch, creating a water trap that rotted all wood and corroed the metal of the cabin top beyond repair).

I can start sailing the way the boat is now. But i know that cabim trunk needs to be replaced, at keast in part. The question i make myself, is if i want to do all the work to just have an equally cramped feeling with a repaired cabin trunk, or take the chance and go for this extended cabin idea who has some interrogants like the ones you just bring.

I will google Topper Hendersons work to see if i can get a grip of his ideas. Thanks for the imput!

Aboit the special explosives well, last time i put hands on special explosives was to blow a big rock on a mountain road in south america.

Although nobody died, the experience was enough to decide that i will stay away from special explosives in the comming years of my life 😬😬😬😁😁😁
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Old 13-02-2021, 06:54   #24
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

Topper Hermanson
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Old 13-02-2021, 09:00   #25
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

Thanks for the correction. Now i found it.
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Old 13-02-2021, 16:49   #26
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

Caminantes.... Hi again!
Regarding Keel Cooling
In my case we routed the coolant along one side of the web of the enclosed I-Beam that formed the keel, and made it flow up and down over some baffles all the way to the end of the Keel by the rudder.

There we cut a hole in the web, routing the coolant back up the other side of the web to the front of the boat and back into the Engine. So no seawater ever came close to the engine and no troublesome Heat Exchanger needed to be maintained. If you have no way to use your Keel, you can route the coolant through some exterior pipes along the Keel. Simple to do and no need to pay for High-end exterior Copper Nickel Radiator like the Coolers as you would have on some really high-end vessels.

This system along with a Sea Chest from which all Seawater that enters the boat flows is generally used in all commercial boats and high-end yachts like the Nordhavn’s and the like.

Close the Intake Valve on the Sea Chest and you are safe to leave the boat for extended times.

I would strongly recommend you get “Metal Boats” by Bruce Roberts-Goodson. I have the first edition referenced here, and maybe also get his latest edition.

This will save you untold troubles and give you all kinds of ideas and options on converting your boat to the best that it can be.

Also, take a look at the French “Garcia” line of Aluminum boats. You can steal a lot of their ideas to really trick out your boat. This is what I would build in Copper Nickel if I was younger and richer.

Hope this helps you.

You may want to watch Pete Goss reviewing the Garcia boat he owns.

(10) Garcia Exploration 45: A complete boat tour by Pete Goss - YouTube
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Old 14-02-2021, 01:05   #27
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

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Caminantes.... Hi again!
Regarding Keel Cooling
In my case we routed the coolant along one side of the web of the enclosed I-Beam that formed the keel, and made it flow up and down over some baffles all the way to the end of the Keel by the rudder.

There we cut a hole in the web, routing the coolant back up the other side of the web to the front of the boat and back into the Engine. So no seawater ever came close to the engine and no troublesome Heat Exchanger needed to be maintained. If you have no way to use your Keel, you can route the coolant through some exterior pipes along the Keel. Simple to do and no need to pay for High-end exterior Copper Nickel Radiator like the Coolers as you would have on some really high-end vessels.

This system along with a Sea Chest from which all Seawater that enters the boat flows is generally used in all commercial boats and high-end yachts like the Nordhavn’s and the like.

Close the Intake Valve on the Sea Chest and you are safe to leave the boat for extended times.

I would strongly recommend you get “Metal Boats” by Bruce Roberts-Goodson. I have the first edition referenced here, and maybe also get his latest edition.

This will save you untold troubles and give you all kinds of ideas and options on converting your boat to the best that it can be.

Also, take a look at the French “Garcia” line of Aluminum boats. You can steal a lot of their ideas to really trick out your boat. This is what I would build in Copper Nickel if I was younger and richer.

Hope this helps you.

You may want to watch Pete Goss reviewing the Garcia boat he owns.

(10) Garcia Exploration 45: A complete boat tour by Pete Goss - YouTube
Hey! Thanks, i m looking into the keel cooling systems and also on the mixed steel and alu constructions, thanks to the peoples suggestions over here.

For the moment, where i am, i have access only to steel plate. Also i never welded alu. So i will stick to steel.

And I ll keep looking into diesel mechanics and alternative, more reliable cooling systems.

I will keep an eye open for that book too. It is always nice to have some reference on paper. Metal boats

My friend has an aluminium boat from a french firma. He bought it second hand and in very good condition some years ago. He has since then sailed it extensively and is very happy with it.

He is also part of the Pelagic 77 proyect and is now in the neatherlands learning many details about the boat with the shipyard people who are building it.

The pelagic is a aluminium boat designed for sailing in high latitudes. Its a safe boat, and hopefully soon is going to be tested in the field.

That Garcia boat reminds me of the Pelagic. Of course, smaller and more family cruising oriented. A go everywhere boat.

The bigger the boat gets, the more complex the systems are. And the upfront and running costs go also up very fast.

I watched the video and Pete's comparisson comments are some times a bit of a disgrace.

I guess it is normal to be affraid of others... when you take joy in watching them struggle 🤔

We are the privileged people cruising around, yes. We are ambassadors where we go. And no, we dont make fun of people who struggle. We help them.

25 years traveling the world the way i do, i met all kinds of peoples, rich and poor.

And because i walked this earth like i own nothing, everything was always given to me.

Being aware of you strengths and weaknesses is important.

But being humble and compassionate elevates your strengths while putting them to the service of others. And its puts your weaknesses in perspective.

Bottom line, we are all in the same boat, no matter how different our boats may look. And my coffee tastes better when i share it.
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Old 15-02-2021, 11:56   #28
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

I did not really get that vibe from Pete Goss, but then I have long ago tried to overlook rudeness ignorance, and stupidity on the internet.
I love to watch the hardscrabble cruising channels and have been known to support some of them.
I believe that he is a salesman for Garcia, and there are worse gigs.
With regard to the Pelagic 77, That probably is one of the finest boats to be constructed by the best Aluminum Builder in the world. I recognize the owner.
He has a high-end Charter operation taking well-heeled tourists to Antarctica.
Anyway...I hope you get those books I recommended. I think they would answer a lot of questions for you.
All the Best
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Old 15-02-2021, 12:39   #29
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxarcher View Post
I did not really get that vibe from Pete Goss, but then I have long ago tried to overlook rudeness ignorance, and stupidity on the internet.
I love to watch the hardscrabble cruising channels and have been known to support some of them.
I believe that he is a salesman for Garcia, and there are worse gigs.
With regard to the Pelagic 77, That probably is one of the finest boats to be constructed by the best Aluminum Builder in the world. I recognize the owner.
He has a high-end Charter operation taking well-heeled tourists to Antarctica.
Anyway...I hope you get those books I recommended. I think they would answer a lot of questions for you.
All the Best
I guess i woke up too sensitive the other day, poor Pete.

Maybe his antics are directed to catch a certain public for the boats.

But i find them unnecessary, since there are many rich guys out there who can actually apreciate quallity and would buy such boat, not for the showing off, but because there are nice boats.

Many rich guys are shy and try to avoid comparissons. In fact, i met a few who would feel a little bad about having that much money.

I mean, those Garcia boats look real nice, and the fact that the company will let you have a day with each technician speaks already well for the product. I wish i would have a tour of my little boat with the guy who built it (specislly the one who installed the motor 😂

Yes the Pelagic 77, the shipyard, the workmanship, its in the art cathegory. The skipper is a referent on high latitud sailing. And yes, very much linked to the stablishment. My friend is enjoying the experience so far, seems all the people involved are happy. So its a project that will probably bring lots of joy to lots of people.

High Latitude sailing i can imagine is not a joke. If you are going to take other people with you, it is good that you do it on the best boat that can be built.

Otherwise, im sure it can be an adventure that anyone with a solid boat and a little luck can get with. And maybe even come back a different person. Or at least, with a very different perspective.

I started a search for the book, asking friends and also searching online.

Going deep in the subjectof metal boats. Enjoying the process.

Also talking with some more experienced people who may be willing to sail together this spring. If that comes to fruition, i will be doing the modifications to the boat somewhere else.

Maybe even better that way!

In any case, i will update the thread when things get started.

Thanks again for all the good imputs!
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Old 20-02-2021, 07:47   #30
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Re: Steel sailboat cabin extension

You make many points here, Caminantes, that I wish my students would learn, specifically about materialism and the benefits of a more minimalist lifestyle. I cannot get some of them to put away their cellphones, and one is even going through psychological trauma because her mother took her phone away the other day. It is insane. They all want the latest in fashion, they don't have the cash to buy it as a rule, and they don't respect other people in many cases. They rarely appreciate another person's opinion if that person is not in their own circle of friends. I expected that of junior high students, but these are high schoolers, 15-19 years old!

Anyway, to get back to the main part of the thread, I have not welded any boats together yet. I cannot offer much there, but will follow the thread in part for that adventure because I have a welder and WANT to do it! I will learn some things from your experiences I am sure!

I also will say that your philosophy of making the most of the least is very good in terms of boats, which as you note by nature are very small and confined spaces relative to structures built on land. For my wife, for instance, the boat is somewhat confining because she sees the bulkheads around her when she is talking, and she is only considering what she sees at that moment. I ask her to come to the cockpit and tell her "now look around, what a massive yard!" and she grins. It is largely in your perspective! We have a 27 foot boat, and after some extensive coastal cruising may move up to something a little bigger just to add some storage space, maybe a shower of some sort, and gain some room in the head, that sort of thing. Nothing massive. Building that thing out of steel has some attraction, but only if I can get a good feel for the process and learn more about the use of steel in boats. I have seem some really complex origami welding efforts on sailboats, and though they do work, the lines are...not fair. LOL. I met a couple from South Africa who cruised their way up to a yard in Florida USA that I was in, and they loved their "multi-faceted gem" of a vessel. She was hardy for sure, and seemed very balanced and was quite solid. You could see the welds everywhere. But they made her from scrap sheet steel, and she made it to Florida intact and without a leak. I have seen glass or wood boats that could not do that. Especially when very new or very old.

I do have an idea that would potentially keep water from a shaft log out by raising the hull penetration above the waterline a little but I am unsure if someone else has tried that (surely they must have?). It would be nice to be able to eliminate that potential hazard for boats that sit somewhere at anchor or on a mooring but have a slight drip from the shaft. Being able to weld up what was desired in the hull shape seems like a great way to eliminate those sorts of pesky issues through innovative ideas.

I will be watching your journey with great interest!
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