Solid fuel cabin heater - why???

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

All good points Gary. With regard to wood sources, I also linked to a compressed wood fibre product that would be easy and clean to store, and would produce a lot of BTUs. I would definitely carry a supply of this, or something similar, if I ever went for a wood stove.

Managing the ash production from one of these stoves would be pretty easy. First, fully bio-degradable, so no issues dumping it anywhere that doesn't interfere with others immediately. And having heated with a quality double-burner type of stove on land, I can tell you the ash production is quite small. This, btw, is the same tech used in the Cubic stoves and I assume the others mentioned here.

To me, the single biggest negative that I think would be an issue is the smoke and soot coming out of the chimney. A modern wood stove (like Cubic) will burn very clean, with almost nothing coming out of the chimney. But this is only true once it gets up to temperature. During the heating up, and then cooling down phases, temperatures are out of the optimal range, and there is less complete combustion going on, therefore more smoke and soot.

I think this would leave a dirty mark on deck/canvas/sails, and possibly irritate any close neighbours. Note, this would only happen for a short period of the burn, but I can't see how it is fully avoidable.

You get similar problems with a diesel or kerosene burner as well (although likely less so). But this is where propane would excel.

Those irritated neighbors, ironically, are the same ones who run their diesel engine at you after anchoring just upwind in an anchorage, or at the next slip to charge their batteries. No one with a diesel engine can complain of heater smoke.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

I looked at that link as well - based on my ancient (late 70's early 80's) experience heating the house with 'solid fuel', I would have to do more research. Back then they had 'sawdust logs' (for lack of a better description). The binder was wax. They were extremely dirty, not really suitable for burning in anything but an open fireplace.

Yes, I know the fake logs you're talking about. These new products are very different -- apparently. I've never actually used them.

Originally Posted by garyfdl

But that brings up another drawback (to me) - cleaning the flue. Also a messy job. On a side note: When I was burning solid fuel, I had a chimney fire in my circa 1860 Pennsylvania house. It didn't burn my house down, so it was actually kind'a cool. Happened about 1 AM; sounded like jet taking off; made the chimney look like a 25' sparkler

Yikes , that's pretty scary. How'd you put it out? And yes, keeping the chimney clean would be a regular maintenance task. Pretty easy on a boat I would think.

Originally Posted by garyfdl

Ash disposal overboard, here, is a big time no-no. Wisconsin DNR (Dept of Natural Resource) takes a really dim view of dumping anything in the water. I'm actually surprised they still let the sinks go overboard and not require a holding tank. On Lake Michigan it is an EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) federal violation to dump.

Really? Wood ash is pretty benign stuff. It's sometimes used in fertilizers. Are you sure it's wood ash that the EPA finds problematic. A quick search turns up lots of regs and issues around coal ash, but that's a completely different product than wood ash.

Originally Posted by garyfdl

The SS Badger ferry is the last coal fired steamship in the US. It's a national landmark, runs between Manitowoc WI and Ludington MI, about 6 mos a year. Even they had to give up dumping the ash enroute, or stop service. Now it's held onboard until it can be off-loaded and hauled to a landfill.

Yes, well, as I say wood ash and coal ash are very different end products. Coal ash is full of nasty bits. It would make no sense to lump the two together, except in some sort of simplistic bureaucratic solution -- oh, wait... I get it .

Originally Posted by Benz

Those irritated neighbors, ironically, are the same ones who run their diesel engine at you after anchoring just upwind in an anchorage, or at the next slip to charge their batteries. No one with a diesel engine can complain of heater smoke.

Yes... people are often blissfully unaware of the harm they do, but are more than willing to complain about others.

Personally, I love the smell of a woodstove. I would much rather smell that than the exhaust from a diesel or kero burner. Here again, propane wins the day in that it's virtually odourless.

[friz]

Originally Posted by johnn33

Diesel fumes
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23851578/
and then
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...nd-cancer.html
John

"Conclusions: The overall evidence from studies on occupational exposure to diesel exhaust and risk of pancreatic cancer leads to the conclusion of the absence of such association." This is from your 1st link. I only read the 1st section from the organization directly. Did not read any more or the 2nd link after reading the Conclusions.

[rslifkin]

From a practicality standpoint, I'd think a solid fuel stove on a boat (unless it's an auto feeding pellet stove) is best as either supplemental heat, or for ambiance, but not as a primary heat source. That said, I do know a guy who lives aboard year round in CT and has a wood stove for his primary heat source. But that's a full size wood stove, not a tiny bulkhead mounted one.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by MSgt

Not a good idea: Burning charcoal produces carbon monoxide, a colorless, odorless gas. Charcoal should never be used indoors, even if ventilation is provided. ... Do not store a grill with freshly used coals indoors until the charcoal is completely extinguished.

See my last response to this. Charcoal is no different than wood coals.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rbk

See my last response to this. Charcoal is no different than wood coals.

Exactly...
Good charcoal is mostly pure carbon, called char, made by cooking wood in a low oxygen environment, a process that can take days and burns off volatile compounds such as water, methane, hydrogen, and tar. In commercial processing, the burning takes place in large concrete or steel silos with very little oxygen, and stops before it all turns to ash. The process leaves black lumps and powder, about 25% of the original weight.

When ignited, the carbon in charcoal combines with oxygen and forms carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, water, other gases, and significant quantities of energy. It packs more potential energy per ounce than raw wood. Char burns steady, hot, and produces less smoke and fewer dangerous vapors.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, I know the fake logs you're talking about. These new products are very different -- apparently. I've never actually used them.

I'm guessing you're right. Probably more along the lines of the binder used in wood pellets, which burn pretty clean.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yikes:, that's pretty scary. How'd you put it out? And yes, keeping the chimney clean would be a regular maintenance task. Pretty easy on a boat I would think.

Luckily, it burned itself out in a few minutes before it could do any damage. The chimney was unlined, and even though I had cleaned it, there was still enough creosote stuck in the bricks and mortar to ignite. We had the chimney lined shortly thereafter.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Wood ash is pretty benign stuff. It's sometimes used in fertilizers. Are you sure it's wood ash that the EPA finds problematic. A quick search turns up lots of regs and issues around coal ash, but that's a completely different product than wood ash.

Yes, well, as I say wood ash and coal ash are very different end products. Coal ash is full of nasty bits. It would make no sense to lump the two together, except in some sort of simplistic bureaucratic solution -- oh, wait... I get it .

Wood ash probably is benign, although I do remember reading (as a kid) that the pioneers/settlers used it and animal fat to make lye soap. And it is certainly better than coal ash. But our DNR doesn't want us to put anything in the lake(s). Few years back, we had an ice shove at our yacht club. And as ridiculous and dumb as it sounds, we could not put the ice back in the lake! We piled it in the parking lot - until it melted - and ran back int the lake. So yeah, "some sort of simplistic bureaucratic solution" is pretty much right.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I love the smell of a woodstove. I would much rather smell that than the exhaust from a diesel or kero burner

Me too... so I have an incense burner and cedar scented incense.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Exactly...
Good charcoal is mostly pure carbon, called char, made by cooking wood in a low oxygen environment, a process that can take days and burns off volatile compounds such as water, methane, hydrogen, and tar. In commercial processing, the burning takes place in large concrete or steel silos with very little oxygen, and stops before it all turns to ash. The process leaves black lumps and powder, about 25% of the original weight.

When ignited, the carbon in charcoal combines with oxygen and forms carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, water, other gases, and significant quantities of energy. It packs more potential energy per ounce than raw wood. Char burns steady, hot, and produces less smoke and fewer dangerous vapors.

People always look at me funny when I sift through the ashes of a cold fire and pull out the charcoal and put it aside. Instantly lights and wind or blowing on it only makes it hotter, best fire starter out there. Always surprised that people think charcoal (more so briquettes) are made from some highly toxic compound not found on this planet

[garyfdl]

Some thoughts on charcoal and propane fuels:

Charcoal is fine in a heater, as long as same is vented. Burning it openly, like in a grill? NO.

AIRC 'natural' charcoal burns hotter than briquettes, but I'm not sure why.

From my solid fuel days, the best wood to burn is black locust (if you can find it). Very high BTU output and it doesn't have to be dried; you can burn it 'green'. It's also an excellent 'boat' wood as it is extremely rot resistant. Local vineyards, ginseng, and hops growers use it for posts. They say when you set the post, put a rock on the top. When the rock crumbles? The post has 20 more years.

I have used unvented catalytic propane heaters, inside small enclosed spaces, for years (decades) hunting, fishing, and sailing. I also have a ventless propane unit in my sturgeon (ice) shanty that has minimal insulation. In all cases, the moisture 'problems' are insignificant. With a vented propane unit there should be no moisture issues. Condensation in a cabin is more likely from the occupant(s) and cooking than from a propane heat source.

In any case, a CO detector is common sense when one is going to be sleeping in a small enclosed space. Likewise a propane sensor if that is being used as a fuel.

[kaisardog]

i had a solid fuel bulkhead stove and loved it. we had no wish or ability to dinghhy ashore and bring huge loads of wood aboard for a wood fired stove.

[scottfree1]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

So, I recently looked at a boat, and I noticed it had one of those bulkhead mounted cabin heaters. "Nice touch" I thought. Then I opened it and found it was a 'solid fuel'. Seriously?

Now years ago (the 70's) I heated a house I owned in Pennsylvania with 'solid fuel' - first wood as a primary source - and later coal as a supplement to oil/hot water. And in my experience, it's a major PITA. It's extremely labor intensive (especially wood - cutting, splitting, drying) and very dirty and messy. Considering diesel or propane fired are so much 'easier', why would anyone choose solid fuel?

Thoughts?

I would just use pressed fireplace logs in mine. Put one in a plastic shoebox and slice off an inch or 2 at a time as needed. be careful to not overload it, I kept a saline bottle next to mine to cool it down and one night had my neighbor visit in a panic with his fire ext. after seeing all the smoke aka steam bellowing out of my boat.