Smiths Penetrating Epoxy as Teak Stain

[zboss]

All,

When we were refitting our vessel this summer we removed the bowsprit and discovered a little bit of rot below. Not a lot but a little. Combined with a slight delamination we determined that our affordable course of action was to use some of the CPES on the bowsprit until such time we can afford to get a new one made.

We noticed that the CPES brought out the luster of the teak bowsprit and stained the teak very nicely, making it look like a dull varnish job. We then applied some varnish to make it a bit nicer.

My question is this: since the epoxy penetrates teak so well, and no one wants to varnish or cetol a lot of teak... has anyone used this epoxy sealer alone as a permanent teak stain?

Does the teak retain this stained color without varnish or UV inhibitor?

Thanks!

- z

[donradcliffe]

The epoxy has no UV protection and will probably break down pretty quickly. I've been putting on 4 coats of penetrating epoxy on unfinished teak to seal and fill the grain--it can be done in an afternoon--then overcoat with varnish or cetol. The end result looks great, but time will tell whether it helps or hurts.

[Zach]

Be careful... Epoxy is a blessing and a curse.
Total encapsulation, or no encapsulation and not much in between.

Don't put epoxy over it, if it is solid stock, or if the lamination layers are much thicker than a 1/2 inch a piece. On large timber, or thick laminate about all you can/should do is epoxy coat the end grain, and pot in any bolt holes or mounting points.

The wood will either be mostly dry, or mostly wet when you put it on and the next season is apt to break the epoxy, LPU, varnish, polyurethane and let moisture in but not back out. All the bolt holes need to be overbored and filled with thickened epoxy. Mounting holes and every inch of surface need to be coated and sealed.

If the wood moves, and cracks the existing varnish every season it isn't a very good candidate for epoxy encapsulation unless you can get it dry and believe you can keep it dry. Otherwise, the next season it'll crack the epoxy and then wooding it back down will be a patience trying experience. Wet, epoxy encapsulated wood is not wood that lasts very long. It cannot breath, and cannot dry out.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Zach

Be careful... Epoxy is a blessing and a curse.
Total encapsulation, or no encapsulation and not much in between.

Don't put epoxy over it, if it is solid stock, or if the lamination layers are much thicker than a 1/2 inch a piece. On large timber, or thick laminate about all you can/should do is epoxy coat the end grain, and pot in any bolt holes or mounting points.

The wood will either be mostly dry, or mostly wet when you put it on and the next season is apt to break the epoxy, LPU, varnish, polyurethane and let moisture in but not back out. All the bolt holes need to be overbored and filled with thickened epoxy. Mounting holes and every inch of surface need to be coated and sealed.

If the wood moves, and cracks the existing varnish every season it isn't a very good candidate for epoxy encapsulation unless you can get it dry and believe you can keep it dry. Otherwise, the next season it'll crack the epoxy and then wooding it back down will be a patience trying experience. Wet, epoxy encapsulated wood is not wood that lasts very long. It cannot breath, and cannot dry out.

I appreciate the response but its already done; also I think that you are probably referring to something like West Systems epoxy.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the smith epoxy but it doesn't sit on the surface of the wood, it gets absorbed into the grain itself, making the wood impermeable to water from the inside. It petrifies the wood and so no moisture can get trapped inside. You keep applying it until no more is absorbed.

Before it is finished drying completely, you then apply your first coat of varnish. This is the part I am referring to.... no applying the varnish at all.

FYI - it is nothing like Git Rot which is absolutely revolting. We used the git rot on some marine plywood inside our stern locker and it is nothing like the smiths.

On another thread I saw that someone is using semco, I may give that a try. Or maybe just stick with the teak oil for a year or two to see how that holds up.

[gwbull]

Have worked extensively with cpes. As you noted, it is a penetrating epoxy (in fact the best there is for deep penetrating dynamics, by far). We have found, as noted in smiths fine print, cpes breaks down fairly quickly at the surface level in normal New England sun if not coated with a uv protectant. Varnish or polyurethane is a must. Cpes provides deep anchoring for any friendly coating that covers it thus extending longevity, and it is an excellent base for any bright work for that reason. It darkens teak slightly, but not unattractively. BUT KEEP IT COATED ADEQUATELY or you'll have to start over again. And as you already know IT COSTS A FORTUNE.

[minaret]

Does no one know how to use a search engine anymore? This has been discussed to death here. Just punch Smiths/CPES into the search. You might learn something.

[geoleo]

OMG!! I used this SMith junk extensively in 1987 when fixing up my Garden 35 Ketch in Alameda--It was all crapola and went to hell and back in about 18 months.. Then I switched to pure laminating epoxy thinned to penetrate for primer on structural repairs and with Cetol over on the brightwork part--I thought Smith went to his just rewards long ago............

[zeehag]

my teak thatis exposed to sea water is fine. my teak not exposed i make have sea water, as sea water keeps teak from rotting. fresh water makes it rot. fix your fresh water access to the sprit and you should be in better shape.