Servicing MAxwell winches: Any advice?

[Weyalan]

It is time to service all the winches on Insatiable... there are only 8 (x2 runners, x2 primaries, x2 secondaries, x2 halyards)... all of them 2 speed self tailing Maxwells (28's and 24's).

Any advice or top tips for the sevicing?

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

It is time to service all the winches on Insatiable... there are only 8 (x2 runners, x2 primaries, x2 secondaries, x2 halyards)... all of them 2 speed self tailing Maxwells (28's and 24's).

Any advice or top tips for the sevicing?

G'day Weyalan. Raven is all Maxwells and we pulled 'em all down and rebuilt 'em a few months back. First up, Maxwell don't make winches anymore and have sold all their tooling and spares to Arco-Hutton in Sydney. They were a great deal of help to me when I needed it and sold me all the parts I required except for a couple of bits that are no longer available.

Few points to consider.

Before you do anything, ring Allan Hutton at Arco-Hutton 02 9623 2448 and get him to email to you the exploded diagrams of each size winch you need to service or if you email me I can send to you what I have but our winches are 27STs, 20STs and 24nonSTs. You will need to dismantle before you start ordering parts for obvious reasons.

Maxwell winches are pretty easy to pull apart and service, from memory there are no nasty tricks but you have to watch the pawl springs which are tiny and have a mind of their own.

On your cockpit winches mounted vertically be careful as you pull off the drum. If the winches are badly clagged up inside, all the innards may try and come with the drum until the law of gravity takes over , you get my drift I'm sure, think kerplunk. Order some spares of clutch and gear springs so that you can afford to lose a few. Ice cream containers are great for the messy bits. Simply dump all the parts in with cleaning fluid (turps or any common degreaser) and leave over night. Then go back and give 'em a good scrubbing with an old toothbrush, finally thoroughly (and I mean thoroughly) rinse off all the cleaning fluid in warm water before reassembly. If you leave any traces of the cleaning fluid on the parts it will react badly with the grease.

When it comes to horizontal mount, another big word of warning. As you undo the screw and start to remove the drum of winches on mast or boom, have something (bucket perhaps) under the winch to catch any bits that decide to make a break for freedom. Clutches should also be identified as they MUST go back as they were. Some are clockwise rotation, others anti clockwise.

When reassembling do not go overboard with the grease. It's a common mistake which does nothing except fill up your winches with grease. Winches should be serviced once or even twice a year depending on usage so you don't need ten years supply of grease.

Importantly, if any of your winches are mounted on metal plates (commonly this is so with mast or boom mounted winches) make sure you use the correct gunk to isolate the two metals or you will start an electrolytic reaction. Sorry, but I forget the name of the gunk.

Finally, do you have lock in winch handles ? It is again a common problem that standard lock in winch handles do not work in Maxwell winches. Maxwell chose to use their own unique design and you cannot buy new or second hand maxwell winch handles for love or money. Arco, however, offer a service where they re machine the drive shafts so that they will accept the industry standard lock in winch handle. It costs around $25.00 a winch and I reckon was money well spent. We even bought some drop forged chrome winch handles from Arco that are lovely. Expensive but lovely . don't float but lovely.

Have lot's of newspaper, cleaning clothes, paper towel and clean dry rags. Plenty of containers for the bits. We also got one of those cheap blue plastic tarps and threw that over the cockpit. Judgng by it's condition when we finished it was a good idea.

I hope that is helpful, any questions by all means get in touch. I have no idea how much winch servicing experience you have but I hope there is not too much of stating the bleeding obvious in the above.

all the best

Andrew

ps -we were sailing with Invincible the other week. She is, I believe a sistership to Insatiable.

[Weyalan]

Andrew,

Thanks very much for the information... just what I needed! Awesome.



P.S. The only "Invincible" I know is a early 80's Farr 1104. But I'm sure "Invincible" is a pretty common name. The only sister ship to Insatiable that I knew about was called "Dry White", but it is good to know that there are others still floating around. "Insatiable" was built in '84, launched in '85 and is a VandeStadt 40' IOR "Mac1" design, or so I'm told.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

Andrew,

Thanks very much for the information... just what I needed! Awesome.



P.S. The only "Invincible" I know is a early 80's Farr 1104. But I'm sure "Invincible" is a pretty common name. The only sister ship to Insatiable that I knew about was called "Dry White", but it is good to kinow that there are others still floating around. "Insatiable" was built in '84, launched in '85 and is a VandeStadt 40' IOR "Mac1" design, or so I'm told.

My pleasure. Anytime.

You could be right re Invincible. I thought maybe given the "In" that she might have been a sister but she could well have been a Farr.

Andrew

[GordMay]

Vertically oriented winches, mounted on horizontal surfaces (coamings, decks, coachroofs, etc) might be best disassembled inside a bucket with a hole in the bottom.
Cut out a hole, large enough to allow the bucket to slide over the winch (upside up). This may help to corral some of those “sproingy” parts that want to make the great escape.

[Weyalan]

Good idea, Gord, thanks.

P.S. Vis a vis sister ships... last night after the local twilight race, I saw a sister ship to Insatiable on the slip. It was called "Warlord" and had an identical hull and deck. It seemed to have a slightly emasculated rig - looked like it was from an IOR 3/4 tonner, smaller winches and no keel bulb (but the one on Insatiable was probably an afterthought), but undoubtedly a sister ship.

[Alan Wheeler]

That was excelletn Andrew. I will echo, get spares of those pawl springs. They are small and will ping off into orbit. I am positive they go into orbit, because you never see them here on earth again ;-)
I use a synthetic lubricant, not grease and also echo that it is best to keep it lightly applied.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

That was excelletn Andrew. I will echo, get spares of those pawl springs. They are small and will ping off into orbit. I am positive they go into orbit, because you never see them here on earth again ;-)
I use a synthetic lubricant, not grease and also echo that it is best to keep it lightly applied.

Weyalan,

Wheels is on the money with the synthetic lubricant. I've been away from the scene for a few years prior to buying Raven earlier this year and didn't find out about SL until I'd already used standard winch grease. Knowing what I know now I'd use synthetic next time.

As to orbitting pawl springs he could be right again. Once you drop one, they are as hard to find as an honest politician.

Andrew

[seafox]

The stuff to use for two dissimilar metals is CRC Lanacote, It is a lanolin based product. The other stuff is a paste called Duralock. It is three times the price than Lanocote.

The development of LanoCote began in 1979 when a Kiwi noted that the majority of American cruising yacht crews used basic, unmodified lanolin to combat all types of boat electrolysis and corrosion with outstanding success.
Continued research and testing has resulted in two basic grades of LanoCote – Amber Grade and Industrial Grade. LanoCote Amber Grade has proved adequate for the majority of situations which involve thread, screw and rivet type fasteners and prevents electrolysis between dissimilar non-ferrous metal threads or fittings. It is almost invisible once applied and is ideal on yacht rigging. It comes in 250 and 500ml pots, four and 20 litre pails.

[Alan Wheeler]

There was a guy even earlier than that. This Kiwi Farmer bloke suspected there was something up with the fact that sheep didn't shrink in the rain. Those Farmer's, they're outstanding in their fields you know ;-)

[Weyalan]

Just a quick update:

I have managed to completely strip, clean, re-grease and rebuild 4 of my 8 winches so far (and have not lost a pall spring yet!).

The winches, once the drums were opened up, were definitely well past their "next service" date, particularly the primary winches. I had to use an impact driver to release the screws. Everything had to be soaked in kerosine and scrubbed with a toothbrush. But, once regreased & reassembled, the difference in smoothness of operation was very noticeable.

Over the coming weeks I will service the remaining winches. Thank you all for your assistance & advice.

[rainbowyachts]

Originally Posted by tdw

G'day Weyalan. Raven is all Maxwells and we pulled 'em all down and rebuilt 'em a few months back. First up, Maxwell don't make winches anymore and have sold all their tooling and spares to Arco-Hutton in Sydney. They were a great deal of help to me when I needed it and sold me all the parts I required except for a couple of bits that are no longer available.

Few points to consider.

Before you do anything, ring Allan Hutton at Arco-Hutton 02 9623 2448 and get him to email to you the exploded diagrams of each size winch you need to service or if you email me I can send to you what I have but our winches are 27STs, 20STs and 24nonSTs. You will need to dismantle before you start ordering parts for obvious reasons.

Maxwell winches are pretty easy to pull apart and service, from memory there are no nasty tricks but you have to watch the pawl springs which are tiny and have a mind of their own.

On your cockpit winches mounted vertically be careful as you pull off the drum. If the winches are badly clagged up inside, all the innards may try and come with the drum until the law of gravity takes over , you get my drift I'm sure, think kerplunk. Order some spares of clutch and gear springs so that you can afford to lose a few. Ice cream containers are great for the messy bits. Simply dump all the parts in with cleaning fluid (turps or any common degreaser) and leave over night. Then go back and give 'em a good scrubbing with an old toothbrush, finally thoroughly (and I mean thoroughly) rinse off all the cleaning fluid in warm water before reassembly. If you leave any traces of the cleaning fluid on the parts it will react badly with the grease.

When it comes to horizontal mount, another big word of warning. As you undo the screw and start to remove the drum of winches on mast or boom, have something (bucket perhaps) under the winch to catch any bits that decide to make a break for freedom. Clutches should also be identified as they MUST go back as they were. Some are clockwise rotation, others anti clockwise.

When reassembling do not go overboard with the grease. It's a common mistake which does nothing except fill up your winches with grease. Winches should be serviced once or even twice a year depending on usage so you don't need ten years supply of grease.

Importantly, if any of your winches are mounted on metal plates (commonly this is so with mast or boom mounted winches) make sure you use the correct gunk to isolate the two metals or you will start an electrolytic reaction. Sorry, but I forget the name of the gunk.

Finally, do you have lock in winch handles ? It is again a common problem that standard lock in winch handles do not work in Maxwell winches. Maxwell chose to use their own unique design and you cannot buy new or second hand maxwell winch handles for love or money. Arco, however, offer a service where they re machine the drive shafts so that they will accept the industry standard lock in winch handle. It costs around $25.00 a winch and I reckon was money well spent. We even bought some drop forged chrome winch handles from Arco that are lovely. Expensive but lovely . don't float but lovely.

Have lot's of newspaper, cleaning clothes, paper towel and clean dry rags. Plenty of containers for the bits. We also got one of those cheap blue plastic tarps and threw that over the cockpit. Judgng by it's condition when we finished it was a good idea.

I hope that is helpful, any questions by all means get in touch. I have no idea how much winch servicing experience you have but I hope there is not too much of stating the bleeding obvious in the above.

all the best

Andrew

ps -we were sailing with Invincible the other week. She is, I believe a sistership to Insatiable.

Aloha, Do you still have the diagrams for the Maxwell winches? I have a 26ST 2-speed that is seized. Mainly I just need the technique for getting it apart! No hint looking at it except to hit the self-tailing part the opposite way? This ia a primary on a Catalina 34, 1987. Thanks for whatever information you can give me.
Mahaol,
Susan

[Weyalan]

I can send you diagrams for the 24ST & 28ST 2-speed winches; I reckon they would be pretty much the same as the 26.

The very top plate on the winch should have 2 slots in it - this is designed for a key tool, to unscrew the top plate, which allows the main drum of the winch to be lifted off. If you don't have / can't ge the correct key, you should be able to (carefully) unscrew it using a large blade screwdriver and hammer to tap the plate round to unscrew it. I would suggest spraying into the outside edge of the plate with a penetrant oil spray (WD40 or similar) beforehand (leave it for 15 minutes to penetrate).

Once you get the drum off, you will expose the pedestal. The chances are that the pan-head slotted screws that hold the pedestal into position will be very hard to shift. Again, use a penetrant oil spray and let it stand for a while. You may well need to get an impact driver to get the screws out.

Do perservere, though; your winches will thank you for it!

P.S. Alternatively, phone Allan Hutton at the number given further up in this thread and ask him to e-mail you the drawings for your particular winch.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by rainbowyachts

Aloha, Do you still have the diagrams for the Maxwell winches? I have a 26ST 2-speed that is seized. Mainly I just need the technique for getting it apart! No hint looking at it except to hit the self-tailing part the opposite way? This ia a primary on a Catalina 34, 1987. Thanks for whatever information you can give me.
Mahaol,
Susan

Go here! HUTTON-ARCO Yacht Winches

[Adam Safier]

I have been going through the winches on our club boats and posted pictures I took in Google. Maybe this will help someone else, despite the photography.

https://picasaweb.google.com/Safier/WinchesNotWenches#

Also, I found that Door Lock springs are pretty close to the right length for Maxwell 24 ST clutches, but are usually a little narrow. A $5 spring assortment pack at Home Depot produced springs of the right diameter that I cut to length but they are slightly too firm for comfort. I don't want to wear the clutches. So the Lock springs are serving as temps while we order more form Hutton-Arco.

Oh, I did a test assembly before tightening the 3 tower screws and when I took it back apart I found one of the tiny lost springs - stuck to the bearing by the thin layer of grease. I would have hated that to be in there when using the winch for real.