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02-12-2021, 09:11
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Self bailers - which one?
I'm looking for a self bailer to drain an outboard well on a catamaran while sailing, with the outboards up, and the well doors closed. I'd like one that was adjustable from closed to fully open that would drain 70lt of water quite quickly (I assume they can do this in less than a minute?). Hopefully a quiet one when cracked open just enough to keep it drained from water that sneaks passed the seals.
Does anyone have experience with these and are they effective?
Can you recommend one?
Thanks.
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Dave
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02-12-2021, 09:22
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,074
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
What would be the purpose of being able to close a scupper?
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02-12-2021, 10:02
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bogue Sound NC
Boat: 1987 Cape Dory MKII 30 Hull #3,
Posts: 1,345
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
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02-12-2021, 10:26
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew
What would be the purpose of being able to close a scupper?
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I don't know much about them but I imagined to reduce drag. prevent damage when drying out, reduce noise. They need to close as the doors open.
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Regards
Dave
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02-12-2021, 10:27
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by davil
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Thanks for the link,
There's not much information on them, do you think it will do what I want?
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Regards
Dave
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02-12-2021, 13:07
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southport CT
Boat: Sabre 402
Posts: 2,695
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Bailers like the one davil posted work in thousands of sailing dinghies worldwide. There are two on my 505 dinghy. Useful when we turtled last outing, though we also have transom openings to speed up the bailing process. 70L of water is quite a bit, and it might take longer than a minute to drain. Is there room to mount two of them?
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02-12-2021, 13:36
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk125
Bailers like the one davil posted work in thousands of sailing dinghies worldwide. There are two on my 505 dinghy. Useful when we turtled last outing, though we also have transom openings to speed up the bailing process. 70L of water is quite a bit, and it might take longer than a minute to drain. Is there room to mount two of them?
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There is enough room for 2, it wouldn't really matter if it took 2 minutes, I just picked 1 minute as a guide so I could understand how long it might take.
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Dave
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02-12-2021, 14:13
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Canada
Boat: T37
Posts: 2,336
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
On dinghies these are generally installed through the bottom of the hull and only drain when sailing and do drain rather fast when moving through the water (sounds like a tub draining with the suction). The one way rubber flaps are prone to damage and if you forget to close when stopped they fill the boat with water. They are also awesome toe stubbers and accidental openers. I can easily see these being left open or leaking and filling the cavity when stopped in a closed out of sight compartment. These are great in dinghies where they are always in the way and treated as a red hot poker when barefoot sailing, not ideal in a closed compartment. There are inflatable self bailers but must be installed above the water line and are prone to failure (simple rubber flap). A small bilge pump may be the safest and best option.
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03-12-2021, 19:42
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 1,405
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Can you post a picture of what your "well" looks like? And the doors. And the seals.
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04-12-2021, 14:25
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggray
Can you post a picture of what your "well" looks like? And the doors. And the seals.
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It's a fresh design and sealing it is my biggest issue, it has to seal reasonably well around the outside and where the 2 doors meet in the middle, I'd like to be able to close it once emptied, I'm ok with opening it from time to time but not leave it on.
I don't have a finished design yet . I work in Autodesk Inventor 3D and I needed to know what bailer to use and if it will work/fit before drawing up the design. I hope I'm using the Super Max size bailer. I am still a bit worried how well they will work 400mm below the waterline... Will they have enough suck to pull the last of the water out ?
Backup plan is to pump the water out but I like the simplicity of the bailer.
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Regards
Dave
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04-12-2021, 14:55
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
This is the only photo I have, that's the tip of the leg of the outboard you can just see.
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Dave
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04-12-2021, 15:09
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 1,405
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
OK, I'm getting a picture here. (edit: I wrote this before I saw your picture in the following post) Since this is on a catamaran, not what I expected.
It sounds like you are talking about a well through the bottom of the hull(s), not unusual on a monohull, but outboards on all cats I've seen hang down from the bridgedeck.
So the bottom of this well is 400mm (16 inches?) below the waterline? I doubt any dinghy self bailer is designed for that kind of pressure. I was going to suggest a venturi self bailer, but that deep, I expect it would just leak water in. Badly.
https://fostersshipchandlery.co.nz/p...venturi-bailer
If you can seal the doors, a pump may be the only solution. Or even if you can't!
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04-12-2021, 16:10
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 1,405
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Now that I see your picture, I'm curious about what you plan to do.
Is the outboard fully raised in the picture? I hope not because there isn't room for "inward" opening doors to do so. And I wouldn't want to think about the drag and other issues of "outward" opening doors.
How do other boats of this model rig doors...or fairings"? Or do they not, and you think it would be good to block off the hole at the bottom...which it would, but not easily I'd think.
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05-12-2021, 01:51
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
Originally it had an aluminium plate screwed/hinged to the outboard skeg, so when you raise the outboard the formed plate overlapped the opening. (Outboard raised by winch and the line held in a locking cam cleat)
When the outboard is in use the plate sits deep in the water and kept true to the waterflow by being hinged forward of centre. Not so good in reverse.
Less than ideal.
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Regards
Dave
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05-12-2021, 03:44
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Self bailers - which one?
The outboard can go quite a bit higher (maybe another 300mm but any higher than it is and it will then come up above the top hatch level and poke out the top, I'd prefer the hatch closed when sailing. As you see it the hatch is closed with about 30mm clearance.
Because I enjoy making my life hard. I would want the raising and lowering of the outboard to automatically open and close the hatches/doors. So in a hurry I can just drop it.
My ideal result would be a single door that slides down on guides and cams and over centres into position to lock down but I think to keep a no interference door pathway without the middle of the doors arc connecting with the skeg will require 2 doors. 2 doors are more than twice as hard.
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Dave
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