Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

........

I was planning on a full samson (note spelling) post, as in all the way down to what passes for the keel at that bit of the boat, and I am fortunate that there is a very serious bulkhead to assist me, it being already reinforced to take the load of the staysail.

........

IMHO, try to source a length of Wandoo (probably recycled). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_wandoo

Extremely hard, very dense and as tough as nails; makes Jarrah, Mari, Tassie Oak etc look pine. Only two problems, 1. very hard to find and 2. very very hard to work with wood working tools. But it's not too bad with metal working tools, treat like a piece of mild steel and work accordingly.

[GILow]

Sounds like you can weld it!

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "If you have bulwarks then you most likely have Panama Leads rather than Fairleads.... good kit.... esp if you every go through the Panama Canal or visit places with a big tidal range..."

Well, yes, but "Panama Lead" is "Murrican" parlance, whereas "fairlead" is universal.

Anyway, GILow's little ship is luvverly whatever we're gonna call those holes in the hull :-).

TP
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[Mike Banks]

Ideally a Samson post should go through the decks and land on the keelson, and the decks in the way of the Samson post be braced fore and aft with layers of epoxy-saturated marine plywood, and perhaps an additional collar ring bolted to same, to ensure that it is strongly breasted and more easily made watertight.

Which is why Samson posts are not used much any more for ordinary vessels--unless steel decked. They are more common on commercial vessels having metal hulls.

It is easier and less expensive to have a clear space there for anchor stowage above the chain locker, by strongly reinforcing the deck in the way of the cleats by using several layers of epoxy-saturated plywood sheets all bonded together, bolted and cured, so that loads imparted to the cleats (or the breast of the Samson post) are distributed to the deck beams and deck shelf, hence to the frames and ultimately the hull and keel.

Personally I would go with properly placed oversize cleats. Not those rubbishy ones with two bolts passing through the cleat itself, but to those costly ones cast, base cast and polished (sometimes welded on) which are affixed by four bolts countersunk and sealed into a faired base, which can be properly sealed against movement and the ingress of water. I came across an ingenious fellow who had a way of using a drill press to cut a groove in the tapered countersinking for the deck bolts, so as to allow an O-ring to be used as a stem-seal for the head of the bolt. Why these plates do not come so machined from the supplier beats me. Usually one has to use Permatex or something similar to effect a proper seal.

All cleats should be done this way. I like bow cleats placed as you mention, with cleats above and strongly reinforced to the deck shelf and deck beams adjacent to the foremast, and whether there is a mizzen mast or not, two more set on the last quarter to one third of the vessel from the stern. These are used for mooring springers, or for securing cyclone ropes and beam anchors in the event of being secured in a mangrove-lined inlet or creek when it hits the fan.

For convenience I also like two more if possible set on the stern either side of any dinghy davits, for securing stern anchor bridles or mooring lines. That makes for bow and stern anchors, and two more for crossed springers. When mooring, long ropes are better. They allow for considerable tidal movement.

[Mike Banks]

Ideally a Samson post should go through the decks and land on the keelson, and the decks in the way of the Samson post be braced fore and aft with layers of epoxy-saturated marine plywood, and perhaps an additional collar ring bolted to same, to ensure that it is strongly breasted and more easily made watertight.

Which is why Samson posts are not used much any more for ordinary cruising vessels--unless steel decked. They are more common on commercial vessels having metal hulls.

It is easier and less expensive to have a clear space there for anchor stowage above the chain locker, by strongly reinforcing the deck in the way of the cleats by using several layers of epoxy-saturated plywood sheets all bonded together, bolted and cured, so that loads imparted to the cleats (or the breast of the Samson post) are distributed to the deck beams and deck shelf, hence to the frames and ultimately the hull and keel.

Personally I would go with properly placed oversize cleats. Not those rubbishy ones with two bolts passing through the cleat itself, but to those costly ones cast, base cast and polished (sometimes welded on) which are affixed by four bolts countersunk and sealed into a faired base, which can be properly sealed against movement and the ingress of water. I came across an ingenious fellow who had a way of using a drill press to cut a groove in the tapered countersinking for the deck bolts, so as to allow an O-ring to be used as a stem-seal for the head of the bolt. Why these plates do not come so machined from the supplier beats me. Usually one has to use Permatex or something similar to effect a proper seal.

All cleats should be done this way. I like bow cleats placed as you mention, with cleats above and strongly reinforced to the deck shelf and deck beams adjacent to the foremast, and whether there is a mizzen mast or not, two more set on the last quarter to one third of the vessel from the stern. These are used for mooring springers, or for securing cyclone ropes and beam anchors in the event of being secured in a mangrove-lined inlet or creek when it hits the fan.

For convenience I also like two more if possible set on the stern either side of any dinghy davits, for securing stern anchor bridles or mooring lines. That makes for bow and stern anchors, and two more for crossed springers. When mooring, long ropes are better. They allow for considerable tidal movement.

[Happ]

Have you ever wondered why almost every boat mfg power and sail have cleats? Because it works! The boats are built to have cleats. Are you sure you want to reengineer your boat? In all my boats only once did I take the bow cleats off. I replaced them with u bolts using the same holes. I did I to prevent spinnaker sheets from getting caught on the cleats. it was a race boat that was dry sailed and only tied to a protected dock for an hour at the most.

Happ

[zeehag]

i have hull mounted bits and i have bulwark mounted bow cleats. i trust my bits, i donot trust my cleats for holding boat in a cane.
btdt.