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Old 26-02-2024, 03:48   #1
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SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

I am about to have Sail bags/Lazy Jacks made up for the main and mizzen sails on Helen. Is there any "Do's" and "Don'ts" I should consider?
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Old 26-02-2024, 05:30   #2
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

You will enjoy them. It was the single best low budget(made my own) addition I added to my boat. and it makes sail handling so much nicer.

I will say that you do have to be mind full when raising the main as every now and again the battens will foul...
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Old 26-02-2024, 05:42   #3
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

I would think lowering the sails in a strong wind would be relatively easy as the sail would be guided into the sail bag?

Yes, I imagine the battens could get caught without care.
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Old 26-02-2024, 05:44   #4
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Yes, my recommendation is to keep them small, no excess material anywhere and if you have cars on a track stacking up high then don’t cover that stack part of the sail with huge cover sides. Just keep them low like if the cars were no there and let the sail stick up from the cover. For storage use a small separate cover for that which wraps around the mast. Much like a horse blanket. You see this often on European boats.
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Old 26-02-2024, 06:18   #5
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Mine are held up with lazyjacks, each of which runs up to a small cheek block on the mast and then down to a cleat. The lazyjacks lines down the mast from the cheek blocks to the cleats are long enough so I can uncleat them and bring the lazyjacks all forward to the mast and hook them under the reefing horns to get them out of the way when raising the sail (and I often leave them there while sailing).

I also have an endless line that passes through a small block on the mast and back tthrough one lashed to the backstay - the line is attached to the zipper pull. It also runs through several "belt loops" along the top of the stack pack. This allows me to run the zipper back and forth along the top of the stack pack from anywhere along the boom.

Put sections of mesh at places along the bottom to allow for drainage.

Don't forget to put slits for reef lines.

Sailrite has a kit if you want to make them yourself (see here for an instructional video). Even if you don't make them yourself, you could pick up some tips and "dos and don'ts" by watching the video. They also have a video that discusses some modifications you may want to consider. Sailrite also sells an instructional booklet that discusses sail packs as one type of sail cover. I don't have the booklet, so I can't comment on what it talks about with respect to sail packs.
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Old 26-02-2024, 06:20   #6
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I would think lowering the sails in a strong wind would be relatively easy as the sail would be guided into the sail bag?

Yes, I imagine the battens could get caught without care.
dropping is easy. falls right into the trough created by the pack. at the aft end might get some reefing line spilling over. only time I have had a batten snag is upon raising. not quite HTW, main sheet isn't loose enough, or the lazy jacks are too tight. and the batten flips under the lazylack lines

SV Jedi makes a good point about the wraparound a very nice option..

two pics one with the front wraparound removed one with it in place. Also make sure you have some sort of method for securing the aft end of the bag closed. Snap eyelets, etc. keeps the birds out
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Old 26-02-2024, 06:32   #7
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

ugh...I hate them.....my main has full battens and the end of the batten catch on them, preventing the sail from being hoisted. Have to lower the main to sort it out.
Main has to be directly into the wind to have an success.
I can push them forward and tie them to the mast, but it's a PITA.

Not sure that they are of any help when the main comes down either. Sure it contains the sail, but it doesn't fold it up at all. Just lands in big wad in the boom bag over the boom.

There is a fiberglass rod at the top of the boom bag that runs the full length of the bag, but it tends to deteriorate in the sun, causing fiberglass shards to attack your hands.

I'm not a fan of these things.
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Old 26-02-2024, 15:57   #8
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Yes, my recommendation is to keep them small, no excess material anywhere and if you have cars on a track stacking up high then don’t cover that stack part of the sail with huge cover sides. Just keep them low like if the cars were no there and let the sail stick up from the cover. For storage use a small separate cover for that which wraps around the mast. Much like a horse blanket. You see this often on European boats.
Now I'm confused. This advertisement regarding a "Sail Cover" is not a "Lazy Jack" system - just a cover to protect the sails? That's not what I want as I imagine they would only be used on small yachts

I should have a photo of Helen in the pen with the sails wrapped in tarpaulins. I'll see if I can find them. I can see why you say "use a small separate cover for that which wraps around the mast"




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Old 26-02-2024, 16:18   #9
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

You want something made by someone who understands them, and comes out to your boat, measures everything, and talks it over with you etc. Done right, they are a great luxury. Don't wrong, you will hate it. There are not any one_size_fits_all or one_size_fits_many solutions.

MicHughV sounds like has a system that was not properly designed and setup for his boat. The sail should drop quite quickly into the bag without any guiding it, and there should be a way to easily pull the lazy jack forward out of the way for raising sail so that battens don't snag it.
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Old 26-02-2024, 16:25   #10
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Yes, my recommendation is to keep them small, no excess material anywhere and if you have cars on a track stacking up high then don’t cover that stack part of the sail with huge cover sides. Just keep them low like if the cars were no there and let the sail stick up from the cover. For storage use a small separate cover for that which wraps around the mast. Much like a horse blanket. You see this often on European boats.

This is where I am confused. Obviously there is going to be a lot more sail near the mast so I can see why you say "For storage use a small separate cover for that which wraps around the mast. Much like a horse blanket" You can see that from ml photo of Helen,

How does the sail fit in to those sail bags that are built like a canvas tube?
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Old 26-02-2024, 16:42   #11
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
You want something made by someone who understands them, and comes out to your boat, measures everything, and talks it over with you etc. Done right, they are a great luxury. Don't wrong, you will hate it. There are not any one_size_fits_all or one_size_fits_many solutions.

MicHughV sounds like has a system that was not properly designed and setup for his boat. The sail should drop quite quickly into the bag without any guiding it, and there should be a way to easily pull the lazy jack forward out of the way for raising sail so that battens don't snag it.

Yes I think that is excellent advice. I wouldn't be interested in doing business with someone that didn't bother to take the measurements themselves. I'll probably take up this guys offer as my intuition tells me he knows what he is doing.



Will Hammond
From:will.hammond@doylesails.com

To:coopec@yahoo.com

Mon, 26 Feb at 4:02 pm
Hi Alan,
Apologize for delay in getting back to you on the Sail bags/lazy jacks (Stakpac).
We have been very busy in production.
The cost are Main $9999 Mizzen $9999 , all include GST and lines for lazy jacks.
I would measure the boat so the covers fit exactly
Call any time
Regards
Will
0407 185474
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Old 26-02-2024, 16:52   #12
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Mine is open in the front to allow air thru.

Also mesh or drain grommets in bottom of bag

I use a retrival line mounted to highest ring to pull them out of the way when raising the sail, this is led near the goose-neck
that is led to cockpit.

THen to raise them both lines are continuous go thru the blocks up high on the mast then thru one block to a single line led to cockpit,
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Old 26-02-2024, 16:54   #13
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

coopec43 -

I think I see where you're confused, but if I go astray just let us know exactly what is confusing and we'll be back.

The cover to the Sailrite booklet shows a photo of a simple sail cover - but reading the print on the booklet cover shows that the booklet actually describes the design and construction of three different types of sail covers; "Throated" sail covers, "Rectangular" sail covers, and "Sail Packs." So - what you are looking for is described in the booklet, but it is not shown on the cover.

Regarding s/v Jedi's suggestion... There are various ways to handle how the sail cover is designed to cover the "bunch" of sail at the mast. Some sail packs simply continue the sides around to the leading edge of the mast or to tracks on either side of the mast (see photo of tan sail pack). Some sail packs have smaller "horse blanket"-type of additions that are placed around the mast and then zipped (or Velcro-ed) onto the main sides of the sail pack (see photo of green sail pack). I think that s/v Jedi had something like the green one in mind. Some sail packs use larger and more complex "horse blanket" systems (see photo of blue sail pack). Then, some have made more modifications to the green and blue approaches in order to address winches on the mast (see red/yellow sail pack).

If this didn't cover what is confusing to you ... let us know in some more detail
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Old 26-02-2024, 17:08   #14
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

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Originally Posted by rls8r View Post
coopec43 -

I think I see where you're confused, but if I go astray just let us know exactly what is confusing and we'll be back.

The cover to the Sailrite booklet shows a photo of a simple sail cover - but reading the print on the booklet cover shows that the booklet actually describes the design and construction of three different types of sail covers; "Throated" sail covers, "Rectangular" sail covers, and "Sail Packs." So - what you are looking for is described in the booklet, but it is not shown on the cover.

Regarding s/v Jedi's suggestion... There are various ways to handle how the sail cover is designed to cover the "bunch" of sail at the mast. Some sail packs simply continue the sides around to the leading edge of the mast or to tracks on either side of the mast (see photo of tan sail pack). Some sail packs have smaller "horse blanket"-type of additions that are placed around the mast and then zipped (or Velcro-ed) onto the main sides of the sail pack (see photo of green sail pack). I think that s/v Jedi had something like the green one in mind. Some sail packs use larger and more complex "horse blanket" systems (see photo of blue sail pack). Then, some have made more modifications to address winches on the mast (see red/yellow sail pack).

If this didn't cover what is confusing to you ... let us know in some more detail

Thanks Ris8r . That is a big help

When I walk around the marina and see sail bags that are built like canvas tubes (the top white one) I wonder why? Is it a matter of aesthetics? (It certainly doesn't seem logical)

The second (Green) and third (Blue) are more logical.

The fourth doesn't seem logical - maybe designed for looks?

I think Ill be leaning toward the blue (No 3) as it seems most logical but still looks good. I think the second (green) also looks functional (and good) too.
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Old 26-02-2024, 17:53   #15
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Re: SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

Maybe I should settle for something like this then?
All in favor say aye.



What do you think s/v Jedi ? (That's along the lines you suggested)



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