Roberts 44

[ozmike]

I am looking at buying an unfinished Roberts 44 ketch, and am trying to quickly work out costs to finish it, does anybody in oz know roughly how much for masts, rigging & sails and to blast and paint the new hull and deck.

[Boracay]

These costs can be found with a few phone calls. I suggest that you find them out for yourself.

[ozmike]

I am sorry Boracay, I just thought maybe someone like yourself who has the same boat may have an idea for me as I drive a truck 12 hours a day, and usually my break is in an area, where i have no phone coverage, usually you ring these people up and they will not give you a price unless they have all the details, I just want a rough idea not a firm quote. so i can work out if it is worth buying.

[cooper]

Ozmike, what stage is the boat up to? The costs are going to depend on how much work you can do, how much gear it really needs, New or second hand, and how lucky you are.

I am talking to a number of people at the moment who are either thinking or have started exactly what you are looking at !!! I should start a " hey lets finish a steel boat club" : )

Have a look at John Connels threads for starters (in the last two or so weeks).

If you are going to pay for someone to do all the work and buy new gear then buy a finished boat. There is a roberts 38 with all the gear sitting in Gove right now. If however you want a serious project...think three years + and wish to do the work yourself, you can have a very satisfying outcome.

But to be fair you have asked soooooo very rough guess...$12 K for blast and prime. Give or take $4 K. $12 K to get you sailing, but totally Dependant on equipment choice choice. A main sail (new) can run from $1600 (US) to $4500 (Aus) and you are contemplating a ketch. (2 of everything). A full set of sails from cruising shute to tiny bullet proof storm jib.....check out how much the kids are worth on the black market. Usually sail wardrobes grow with the boat. I think this is somthing that is forgotten these days with the "I want it ALL and I want it NOW" idea of major purchases.

Have a think about what you want the boat to be able to do when you launch it, and then work your costs from there....

[ozmike]

Thanks cooper, boat is nearly finished just needs paint, rigging and small odds and sods, have to transport from melbourne to whitsundays, so i was contemplating getting it painted down there and motoring it home, instead of paying for road transport and still have to get it painted. Have sent an online quote to allboat transport, so will compare the 2.

[cooper]

I hope by nearly finished you mean more than a bare hull. Is the interior fitted out? Engine and systems fitted? 12 volt wiring through? Road transport is an interesting question in its self. From Melbourne to Mackay you are looking at aprox 1650 nautical miles. If your boat averages 5 knots around the clock, and your engine does 6 litres an hour. At $1.70 per litre of diesel its going to cost $3366 in fuel. Travel lift and yard costs are ......"$Marine$". $600 per lift is not out of the question. You will see by my figures (regardless of how exact they are) that the answers can become more difficult and the BLOW it out of the water factor greater. Now if it was rigged in Melb, and you sailed it up you may save the cost of the main mast !!....I do understand why Boracay says to do your home work. You have to work out what scenario(s) you are going to pursue......I do hope this is helping not confusing you.

[john connell]

Ozmike,

It is a matter of letting your fingers do the walking as Borocay advises.
However, there are places you can hire them from also.
Is your yacht steel?
Alternatively you can buy a set up like I did and get some professional help to set up and show you the ropes.Provided you have the right place to do it.I did about 3 months reading up/investigating on the subject before I took the plunge.
Here you go for what it is worth to you.

1 Hire a blast unit for around $300 for 2 days or $500 for 5 days. Generally anyone who hires will have to show you the safe way to do it under O H & S laws.Cost of Garnet media is around $350 per ton.Compressor is extra.Know anyone who is in the building trade? Need at least a 250 cfm compressor.
Contact Brad or John at Burwells Abrasives in Newcastle on (02) 4964-8999 or www.burwell.com.au.Very helpful people who sell new units. You can buy a full set up unit for around $5,000 :00 and sell it when you finish if you choose.They will at least be able to put you in the right direction up your way.

2 Check out ebay, trading post, industrial auction houses etc.You can seriously save thousands.e.g. Just last week I just bought a 300cfm compressor set up on a trailer that is professionally set up for sandblasting.Cost- $450.00. Well- I need to go down and pick it up in Eden down the South Coast 500 klms away but hey I can go for a surf and destress on the way !!This week out of the blue on ebay I also bought a Clemco industrial blast unit with all the hoses,helmet and 2 full spray units ( 10 litre and 2 litre ) and extra guns.The guy who owned it is a boat blaster and he is coming up to show me the ropes.Cost $2500.
been looking for a while for one admittedly but they do come up.
All up for both so far under $3,000:00.To buy new normally would be over $15000:00 +.One word of caution is that I have the right place to do it and want to take my time doing it and you will need some good helpers.
What ever you do do not buy one of those dinky red painted units for around $2-300 dollars- waste of time and money unless you are blasting a wheel or an ashtray.Like swatting an elephant with a tea towel.

Even if you pay to have to truck something it can be well worth it and your a truckie right- you will have connections I assume ?
Recently I picked up $8,000:00 worth of 3m x 1.5m plate ( 15 sheets ) for a $1,000:00,trucked the whole lot from Lismore to the Central Coast
Moral of the story.LOOK EVERYWHERE-You will save heaps.

OK- Don't have the time or the inclination.?
I asked for a price to do my 40 ft steel boat from a local.
Quote was $30 p.s.m. for a straight up blast.$100 p.s.m for a blast, prime and 2x 2 pack epoxy coats.My boat would have cost me around $13,000:00 to be blasted and finish painted by him.
Its going to be a s#*** job to do but I am looking forward to saving at least $8,000:00.
Permanent Painted Coatings on Permanent Painted Coatings Home will give you an insight to paints and try International paints also.

The forum members here will give you heaps of helpful advice.
Good luck and good will.
Send me a pm and will be happy to give you some help in the right direction if I can.

Regards
John.

[ozmike]

Thanks for the advice guys, Cooper yes everything is complete, i have no idea what transport costs will cost me, i may also consider leaving on the hard at a marina in Melbourne till i can afford rigging, there are so many different scenarios, but when i have all the prices will decide which is best, we have a 5 year plan, as i work 12-14 hr days but only 5 days a week, and earn pretty good money, i would rather pay to get work done, and get it finished asap, so we can sail weekends, then in 5 years time sail off into the sunset, just my wife and i.
John, As i am pretty handy with my hands and am a spray painter by trade, it would be logical to do it myself but unfortunately my body no longer handles working 7 days, part of which is hard work, already had a major back operation.

[john connell]

Ozmike,

I am a VERY slow unit on the keyboard.Whilst I was taking the last hour to type up my post Cooper has run up the sideline,sidestepped me and scored a try.Must get better at this.!!

Just kidding. He and Borocay know better than me what you are up against and they have already given me some seriously good advice as I go down the path they have already trodden.Hence my advice on talk to everyone you can.
Also, I may have been a bit light on the all up $ costs for blast,prime and 2x finish coats.I'm going to do inside and outside-because I can take my time and have the tools now.
If you were to choose that course which by the look of your latest post you wont be it would be higher cost.

Also try Marine Transport in Sydney for a quote too.Heard they are very good.
By the way talking about bargains- 2 weeks ago I was looking at buying a 40 ft steel finish coat painted multi chine on a hard stand to go with a 85 hp perkins and borg warner box,semi fitted out with s/s railings /ports/hatches/winches etc ,etc. all except mast and sails. "Buy it now" ebay price was $15,000:00.I thought about it all day.Called 10 minutes too late to buy it.Arghhh !!!!!!
Last week there was a 38 ft Roberts nearly finished in W.A. for buy it now price on ebay at I think around $19,000:00 sail away with all you need.

There are bargains out there and possibly closer to you than you think.As Cooper said think about it before you commit to paying big bucks to transport a boat ( by road or sea ) that you then need to spend more thousands on.
Curious, how much is the boat you are considering buying selling for in Melbourne.?

Take your time and look around maybe ?

Regards
John.

[cooper]

Good advice John...We all live in different worlds. You really do need to decide what is going to be the most successful for you. The very reason that these "bargains" are around is because it is just not that easy. I am not in the business of crashing dreams, quite the opposite (if I can so can some one else) The way to success though is to find the shoe that fits. Financially, (in my case) , practically, time constraints, skill level, mental level,....this last one is important....if it means you may blow a fuse...chose a different option. Imagination....

There is absolutely no reason why I should end up with a brand new , ocean going, steel yacht,complete with the stuff I want....No qualifications....small income....BUT...

[Boracay]

I did not mean to be unkind.

But seriously, if you are making good money at the moment I would suggest salting it away.

From the moment you buy a boat the money starts pouring out.

As a rule of thumb any boat that needs work is going to end up costing about the same as a complete sailaway secondhand boat.

So if your Roberts 44 is worth (say) $150k sailaway, and the steelwork is for sale at (say) $10k then figure that you have $140k to spend (and 6,000 hours = (6,000/16)/52 = 7.5 years at your quoted work rate).

It is a big boat and a massive effort to complete.

If you are earning $25 p/h after tax and working the 60 hour week that truckies "love" then your kitty could be growing at 60*$25*50 = $75k pa less living expenses.

So in two years you would have enough for a sailaway, in three enough for a nice boat, and in four enough for something most of us here can only dream about.

So rather than buying a project I suggest getting yourself into shape - hang round marinas, crew on a few boats, learn navigation and then if you still really want a boat take your choice of the tens of thousands of good ones available round the world.

[Reefmagnet]

Contact Southern Cross Boat Transport Boat Transport - SOUTHERN CROSS BOAT TRANSPORT - Boat Transport services servicing Mariners Australia Wide, Queensland, Sydney NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, Adelaide SA, Perth WA, Darwin NT - I highly recommend them (no affiliation). Ask about a backload rate which works out cheaper. As for finishing costs, heed what the experts here say. Once you've estimated the cost you need to triple it to arrive at what will be more or less the final figures lol.

[Brent Swain]

Check the reports of skeg failures on Roberts designs on metalboatsociety.com. Sounds like yours is in the right stage to make rectifying the problem easy. Roberts said he designs his skegs to fall off if they hit anything.

[cooper]

Re last post....Brent (Lois Riel) is correct in suggesting that you nees to check this aspect. PM me if you need to or even better as he suggests join the metalboatsociety.org