Replacing short Mainsheet traveler - options?

[antoha]

Hello fellow cruisers,

We have a LeComte NorthEast38, built in 1968. The traveler is not original, but still pretty old. It’s a 1.1/4” track with I think a Fico 4-wheel car with cam cleats on car, 1:2 purchase. The car is very hard to move under load. There are noticeable wear marks on the track from side loads by the wheels.

The challenge is that the track is only 26.3/4” long, it runs (supported) between the cockpit seats, and can’t be made longer (I wasn’t planning on moving the traveler to the coach roof). The car itself is 3” long, and the end stops are also 3” each - so the traveler can be moved at most 27/2”-3/2”-3”=9” away from the centerline, which is little - but it helps. I don’t want to reduce that, I might as well not have a traveler at all if it gets less than that. Most cars I see are pretty long.

What are my options? The mainsail is not very big for a 38’ boat, I’d say it’s under 300 sq ft (12’ boom, by 45’, and its not very roachy). The boat is mostly Genoa driven.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.
Anton

[model 10]

What a rip off, Schaefer Marine only sell 4' lengths of track for big $$$.
What about a dual line main sheet set-up from the cabin top? They use 2 lines from the boom into cam cleats.

[antoha]

Relocating the traveler to coach roof would be more project than I’d want right now. I’d need to beef up the roof, make sure it can hold it and nothing leaks, etc. Too much work, I think.
Plus, no lines lead to cockpit on this boat, everything is where it is, kind of (halyard winches are on the mast, outhaul is inside the boom with a crank near mast, traveler is self contained, etc). I very infrequently race, we mostly cruise. But still, prefer things to work rather than not...

[Bill O]

Wait for the Newport (Sept 12-15) or Annapolis boat show (Oct. 10-14) and get a new traveler from Garhauer. Not certain how much extra show discount you'll get, but you'll end up w/a good product made to your specifications and much cheaper than Schaefer or Harken.


Bill O.

[antoha]

But how long is their traveler car? If it’s 10” compared to my current 3”, plus the end pieces, that cuts my 9” max off center down to 4-6”, is it even worth having a traveler then?

[wingssail]

You could re-engineer that traveler system to give more purchase, and more travel by using some other end pieces, remove and change the cleating system, a new track and car, and I don't like the way you have to pull it to change the position, looks awkward, etc etc. It will be somewhat trial and error, and of course some money...

But, with a good boom vang you can use it to control the boom. This is called vang sheeting.

And don't touch the traveler.

[Bill O]

They have different travelers and cars. Probably best to give them a call. Usually they can make up whatever you want.
https://www.garhauermarine.com/travelers/travelers.html


Bill O.

[Bill O]

In this article it shows a pic of your boat design w/the traveler on the cabin top. It wouldn't be too bad to put it back up there with some traveler risers (Garhauer) bolted directly to the new traveler.
Could make your main sheet easier to handle and function better. As a bonus, it would free up some room in the cockpit.


Bill O.

[psk125]

To really mess up the works, how about running the traveler across the top of the seats? You’d need to re-do the cockpit seat-locker hatches, but it would give you a lot more control.

Did a quick search and understand your dilemma; finding a short traveler car & stops is not easy. Harken’s (https://www.harken.com/productdetail...4058&taxid=483 ) is 5 3/8” long - longer than what you currently have. And the bumpers aren’t any shorter either.

[gulfstar37]

You have several options all with advantages and disadvantages. Here are a few, some discussed above. No matter what you decide looks like you will need to invest in new gear.

- Current traveler location. Minimal adjustment problem you pointed out.

- Move traveler behind you. End boom attachment. Allows longer traveler however less effective do to length of arc.

- Move traveler to cockpit forward end. Mid boom attachment. Boom must be strong enough for single point attachment. Seen booms fold in half because of this. This is usally in way of compainway egress.

- Move to cabin top. Boom load can be spread over section of boom. Usally two or more points of contact. You already mentioned strength needed in cabin top. Advantage is it's out of the way.

- Two mainsheet control. This option was used a lot in the earilier European designs and works well. This may alow you to keep your present location but move to sides of boat in effect wider control. Downside more complicated because you have to adjust two sheets. This option was either end boom or mid boom.

It all comes down to compromise. Good luck!

[chouliha]

As I understand it one option is to replace the existing traveler? if that is the case I would suggest contacting https://www.garhauermarine.com/. About 25 years ago I had a old nicofico traveler and wanted a drop in replacement. I contacted Garhauer and they said sure that's easy just send us your old track. We will make the new one to match the hole pattern.

It was the easiest project I have done in 35 years of owning Jacaranda. They even made a backing plate track as well. Everything fit perfect and it was soooo much cheaper than the competition. The car assembly was my choice of their equipment and it was easy to slide on once the track was mounted.

If you decide to do a different traveler I bet they could build one that you would be pleased to have onboard

Give them a call

Good luck

Chuck
Jacaranda
Mo'orea

[antoha]

Thank you for the suggestions, everyone!

The boom ends just above the dodger, so even with this layout the Mainsheet runs forward to boom end from traveler. Moving it behind won’t work, it will try to cut the helmsman in half every time it moves through (or I’d need a new much longer boom, and mainsail, and Bimini). The boom is only 12’ long and it’s a 38’ boat.
Forward in the cockpit - the mainsheet would interfere with the dodger, and I really dislike this location, I had it on a previous boat (a c&c 29), it’s not safe for people sitting there, and if they don’t - the cockpit isn’t very usable, we are mostly a cruising boat. Running over the seats - the sail lockers are huge, and I would completely lose access to them, not nice. And there’s practically no other stowage on the boat.
So it sounds like the options are either to ask garhauer to make a drop in replacement, within reason - or go to the cabin top. The boom is short and beefy, I doubt it would break with midboom sheeting, but I wonder how much clutter that would add in that area, with the additional blocks to run the main sheet back to the cockpit...

In other words, I kind of don’t like the current setup or any if the alternatives. Every boat is a compromise, heh...

[Bill O]

So I was looking into your boat design a bit more and it appears you may have the MkII version. The link w/the pic of the traveler on the cabin top was probably a MkI. Between the different versions it appears there were many changes, included a totally different under body. This makes me wonder if there were also changes to the boom length.
Was able to find P values (boom length) for the MkI (10.74'), MkII & III (12.16') Did see pics of several traveler set ups for the MkII and they tended to have end boom sheeting like you current set up.
With the extended boom length in mind (vs. the MkI), I'll retract my initial suggestion to move the sheeting/traveler to the cabin top. It could be done, but the sheeting from a multiple point boom setup may be too far back/well over the hatch. The mid boom sheeting also makes it more difficult for the helmsman to control if shorthanded and you'll probably also need a winch to sheet it in.

I agree with a previous suggestion about needing good vang control if you stay w/the end boom sheeting in the cockpit. The short traveler length is only slightly more useful than single point sheeting for sail shape if you utilize it to back sheet in light air (if needed). From a practical stand point the small traveler may allow the helmsman to sheet in the main if it is moved from one side or the other, but still doesn't appear to be that good if you are shorthanded.

Is your idea for the you to control the sheeting while steering? If so, blocking needs to be used to route it aft and not take up valuable cockpit space. Not coming up w/any ideas at the moment, but certain others will jump in w/some.


Bill O.

[antoha]

I think we are the last mk2 or first mk3, with boom of 12’ and end boom sheeting. The traveler setup in the photo is original, except there also used to be a winch there (probably to compensate for insufficient mainsheet purchase or too much friction in the original wood and micarta blocks); you can see the base for it with 4 mounting holes.
I’m not sure what the best way should be. When cruising, if the traveler needs to move up - I depower by releasing the mainsheet, move traveler, then trim. If it needs to move down to flatten the main, that’s usually easy enough to do. If the wind is light and I just need to center the boom - it’s not an issue, I can move the boom by hand. If I’m tacking and traveler should be up, I usually first move it down same amount as it’s now up before tacking, cleat it, and then tack - I lose some speed that way before the maneuver, but it’s easy and works well enough.
It’s just that I went racing last weekend (after 9 years ow owning the boat), for the first time in this boat, and realized that if I’m messing with the traveler for 10 min on a 20 min tack, I lose a lot to the boats that don’t

[Bill O]

Increasing the sheeting purchase could be addressed by going to a 4:1 or 6:1 and should give plenty of power w/o the winch. Big draw back on the 6:1 is the amount of line in the cockpit and how fast it can pay out, especially on a controlled gybe (wear gloves).

The other issues mentioned sound like bad car bearings and this would be fixed w/a new traveler. Still think Garhauer is your best bang for the buck and they will most likely size it to your specifications and it will be ready to just drop right in.

We have had a Garhauer traveler for a few years now and been very happy with it.


Bill O.