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01-04-2020, 19:21
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 6
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Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Hello!
I am attempting to fit a monitor vane to my Pacific seacraft Mariah 31. After a lengthy discussion with Scanmar about mounting location, we agreed that using one of the stern chain plate bolts would be best. Now actually getting the bolt out is turning out to be a real challenge. I have removed the nut on the inside, but do not have enough room to tap the end of it out with a hammer. it's a very tight space, would be lucky to have 2.5 inches from side to side. Does anybody have any solutions on how to best remove the bolt? Would the best solution be to just cut the head off with a grinder and punch it through from the outside? Also should I take tension off the chain plate by easing the backstay, or would the other 4 bolts be fine to hold it. All help is greatly appreciated. Thanks
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01-04-2020, 19:39
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Southern California
Boat: Catalina 320
Posts: 1,385
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
I'd try a long pry bar, place on threaded end and hit it as close to that point as possible, it might back it out enough to get the bar under the head. Plan B, loosen backstay and all four nuts, pry up whole chainplate just enough to get under the bolt you want.
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01-04-2020, 20:59
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Vancouver B.C.Canada
Boat: Century Raven 17'
Posts: 443
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
The trick to getting bolts off motorcycles that have had red loctite applied is to heat the bolt, then apply wrench and stand on the wrench a while applying slow pressure, and you may need to jump on it a few times, but be ready when it breaks free, you will fall.
Another way is with an air impact wrench like they use to remove wheel bolts, but not sure if you have room for that.
I would try loosening it first before cutting anything off, if you can get it off without doing that the job will be a lot easier.
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01-04-2020, 21:09
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 29,923
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Hi, Sailor.Sax,
So, if I understand you correctly, nothing is holding the bold in place at all, except the caulking that went in with the bolt? Try pulling it out with vice grip pliers, wiggling it like unwinding it from the caulk. If it didn't work that way, me, I'd try some weasel piss on it (equal parts of automatic transmission fluid and acetone). Jim has had super luck with it. You should be able to grab the bolt with vice grip pliers and pull that puppy out, after it has sat for a while. (A while = long enough to make and drink a cup of coffee.) It might take 2 cups of coffee, but usually the atf guides the acetone in, and out the object comes, with a little help. "Better living through chemistry."
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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01-04-2020, 21:37
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 1,597
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate
Hi, Sailor.Sax,
So, if I understand you correctly, nothing is holding the bold in place at all, except the caulking that went in with the bolt? Try pulling it out with vice grip pliers, wiggling it like unwinding it from the caulk. If it didn't work that way, me, I'd try some weasel piss on it (equal parts of automatic transmission fluid and acetone). Jim has had super luck with it. You should be able to grab the bolt with vice grip pliers and pull that puppy out, after it has sat for a while. (A while = long enough to make and drink a cup of coffee.) It might take 2 cups of coffee, but usually the atf guides the acetone in, and out the object comes, with a little help. "Better living through chemistry."
Ann
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Thread drift alert.
The yard in Mexico set my new cutlass bearing in with 5200. I had no warning. Now with the boat in Hawaii, it's time for a new bearing. I know that there is a product that cuts 5200, but no experience with it. Hoping that 'weasel piss" will be smarter.
__________________
Minggat
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01-04-2020, 23:22
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: Samson C Mist 32
Posts: 680
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Can you leave the bolt in place and weld another onto it to mount the vane? Drill another hole through the chain plate for another bolt? Push the bolt out from the inside with blocks of wood and wedges or levers or something like an improvised tiny screw jack? Partially remove another nut on the inside - if accessible - and use it as an anchor for prying to exert pressure on the bolt, after applying penetrating oil of your choice for a few days. Heat while pushing. Grind off bolt head and drive it in, unless it's a carriage bolt, which has a square under the head that would make it hard, and destructive, to drive.
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01-04-2020, 23:35
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#7
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 21,492
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate
Hi, Sailor.Sax,
So, if I understand you correctly, nothing is holding the bold in place at all, except the caulking that went in with the bolt? Try pulling it out with vice grip pliers, wiggling it like unwinding it from the caulk. If it didn't work that way, me, I'd try some weasel piss on it (equal parts of automatic transmission fluid and acetone). Jim has had super luck with it. You should be able to grab the bolt with vice grip pliers and pull that puppy out, after it has sat for a while. (A while = long enough to make and drink a cup of coffee.) It might take 2 cups of coffee, but usually the atf guides the acetone in, and out the object comes, with a little help. "Better living through chemistry."
Ann
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Ann, while it is a good idea if the bolt had a hex head, it looks like the bolts are cup headed - see the OP's second photo. There is not much to grip!
While grinding off the head might work, it might be a carriage bolt and grinding off the head isn't much help.
Me, I would bite the bullet and try to remove the entire chain plate without any grinding or welding.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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01-04-2020, 23:45
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,477
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname
Ann, while it is a good idea if the bolt had a hex head, it looks like the bolts are cup headed - see the OP's second photo. There is not much to grip!
While grinding off the head might work, it might be a carriage bolt and grinding off the head isn't much help.
Me, I would bite the bullet and try to remove the entire chain plate without any grinding or welding.
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Ditto, remembering that as soon as the chainplate is released it needs to be resealed anyway.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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01-04-2020, 23:48
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 4,229
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
If you are willing to go the destructive route and have all the tools:
Use a center punch to start a hole in the head.
Drill out the hole to about 3mm(1/8”)
Tap the hole just a bit
Thread in something that you can now use to pull from the outside.
Not as simple as cutting off the head, but risk only to the bolt rather than to chainplate, etc.
Other option, if the can fit something in your 2.5” space is to try and jack it out. Even a small car scissor jack can work if you can fit it in the space. Pretty much anything that you can screw open to put pressure on the tip of the bolt.
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02-04-2020, 00:41
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 373
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Remove the nut then put the flat face of the "straight" end of a crowbar against the bolt. Use a 2lb. Sledge hammer, a carpenters hammer is too light. Grip the crowbar in one hand at the curved end tightly and smack it hard as close to the flat end as possible. You'll get a good jolt in your gripping hand, the bolt will get about 10x that amount. 3-4 solid hits, keep the flat face of the crowbar as perpendicular as possible to the bolt as you don't the bolt to be bent sideways. If it hasn't let go by then check that you are not mushrooming the bolt, and quit if you are. No point making the bolt into a rivet!
If it won't budge find someone with an arc welder and weld a short length of threaded rod on the outside head. Using a suitably sized socket or short bit of pipe larger diameter than the bolt head, slip it over the threaded rod, put a few large washers on the rod and then a nut. Bit of grease or oil, then tighten down and it should pull out fine. Don't send the welder home until you've tightened it down and extracted the bolt, just in case the weld fails. Call backs cost more, and it's the welders responsibility to make a good weld in the first place. Welding heat will help soften adhesive too. Good luck.
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02-04-2020, 09:47
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor.Sax
Hello!
I am attempting to fit a monitor vane to my Pacific seacraft Mariah 31. After a lengthy discussion with Scanmar about mounting location, we agreed that using one of the stern chain plate bolts would be best. Now actually getting the bolt out is turning out to be a real challenge. I have removed the nut on the inside, but do not have enough room to tap the end of it out with a hammer. it's a very tight space, would be lucky to have 2.5 inches from side to side. Does anybody have any solutions on how to best remove the bolt? Would the best solution be to just cut the head off with a grinder and punch it through from the outside? Also should I take tension off the chain plate by easing the backstay, or would the other 4 bolts be fine to hold it. All help is greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Looks like you could pry it out with a flat pry bar. If there is too much space to apply pressure stuffing a piece of wood in to pry against might work. Heating the bolt with a heat gun might help to loosen the caulk. It's undoubtedly a carriage bolt so grinding the head off and punching it through is a non starter.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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02-04-2020, 17:39
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Noank, Ct. USA
Boat: Cape Dory 31
Posts: 3,277
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Dymaxion beat me to it. Weld a piece of threaded rod to it and it will be simple to remove, get on with the install. Monitor was a great choice. I’m sure you will come to love yours.
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02-04-2020, 21:26
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,833
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
- Get a 2" long 1/4" (or 3/8") flat head machine bolt and one nut.
- Find a piece of pipe or someting that you can put the bolt inside and slighlty longer than the bolt.
- PLace one nut right next to the head, then the pipe.
- Place the end of pipe against the hull shimmed with some thin metal to provent the pipe from going thru the glass.
- The head of the bolt should go against the bolt you are trying to remove.
- Start torquing (removing) the the nut close to the head with a wrench, which will push the pipe against the hull and bolt you want to remove out.
- Once you have some of the bolt out the other side, remove it with a vise grip, hammer and some prayer, but do not curse, or it will not work.
- The challenge is to find the pipe to fit outside of the 1/4" (or 3/8") bolt and keep it against the hull. If you cannot find the pipe or similiar bushing, a bunch of nuts larger than the bolt will do, kept together with marine grade duct tape...
- Patience! and easier done than said.
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03-04-2020, 03:37
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 82
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
But....yes, I would first take the backstay away, use something else to gold the mast, and slacken all the other volts af the chainplate.
Then try any of the other good ideas.
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03-04-2020, 06:06
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Removing only 1 stubborn chain plate bolt in tight space for windvane mounting
Put a shim behind the bolt and against the bulkhead
Loosen the nut until it butts up against the shim
The nut will push the bolt out
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