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17-02-2017, 10:13
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
better use polyester as the boat is made of rather then introducing epoxy..,
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17-02-2017, 10:27
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjhagbard
better use polyester as the boat is made of rather then introducing epoxy..,
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Polyester only creates a chemical bond on a relatively green lay up. Other than that you are relying on tooth and a physical bond. Polyester is not a glue epoxy is.
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17-02-2017, 17:43
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#19
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
I think there's a lot of support for my "right way" to do it although some explain it is a job for a pro, difficult, high risk etc. I guess there's people who can't pull this off but with the videos to guide you it really can't go wrong
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18-02-2017, 01:56
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 1,333
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
A few more ideas for you:
Call the plotter people and see if they can supply you with a compatible log to fit, or point you the way. They may exchange it.
Call Airmar, they make sensors for most of the OEMs I believe and this will not be new to them.
Look for plumbing fitting to reduce the size. In bronze or DZR of course. Pipes are reduced routinely like this.
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18-02-2017, 05:34
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Home port: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Boat: VIA 42, aluminium cutter
Posts: 141
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
All good advice and I agree - do not attempt the job yourself.
It's not difficult but MUST be done right.
Hire a professional, watch & learn.
Good luck.
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18-02-2017, 08:47
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#22
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Polyester only creates a chemical bond on a relatively green lay up. Other than that you are relying on tooth and a physical bond. Polyester is not a glue epoxy is.
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While the chemistry is a little different, both are a plastic which converts from a liquid to a solid form by exothermic chemical reaction.
When applied to cured polyester resin, both polyester resin and epoxy resin forms a hardened plastic that adheres to the original surface via a secondary (mechanical bond).
I use unwaxed Isophthalic polyester resin for pretty much 100% of the repairs I perform on polyester FRP boats.
Properly applied, the polyester resin mechanical bond is as strong as the polyester resin FRP it is applied to.
I do a lot of polyester FRP repairs for a lot of happy customers and have never had a polyester resin secondary bond adhesion failure, in the 40+ years I've been using it.
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18-02-2017, 09:04
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#23
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia
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Differing opinion.
The link would not open for me, but it is my experience that manufacturers tend to promote the use of their products over competing manufacturers products.
Meanwhile, I, a fibreglass repair professional (not obligated in any way to any manufacturer) use Isophthalic polyester resin, glass, and fill to make old transducer holes under, the waterline, go away, all the time. No failure ever.
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18-02-2017, 09:08
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#24
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
I think there's a lot of support for my "right way" to do it although some explain it is a job for a pro, difficult, high risk etc. I guess there's people who can't pull this off but with the videos to guide you it really can't go wrong
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Except if not done correctly, the repair could fail, the vessel sink, and all property and occupants be lost. Yeah, I guess there's that. ;-)
I've even seen some "hired" (won't call it pro) work that makes me cringe.
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18-02-2017, 10:39
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod
Except if not done correctly, the repair could fail, the vessel sink, and all property and occupants be lost. Yeah, I guess there's that. ;-)
I've even seen some "hired" (won't call it pro) work that makes me cringe.
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Anyone can feather out a hole on both sides and slop in some resin and cloth.
What scares me are the people that read it and disregard the importance of temp. and humidity and total penetration by the resin. Or for that matter uses cloth for the layup. Cloth on cloth is a lousy layup.
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18-02-2017, 10:47
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod
Except if not done correctly, the repair could fail, the vessel sink, and all property and occupants be lost. Yeah, I guess there's that. ;-)
I've even seen some "hired" (won't call it pro) work that makes me cringe.
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Anyone can feather out a hole on both sides and slop in some resin and cloth.
What scares me are the people that read it and disregard the importance of temp. and humidity and total penetration by the resin. Or for that matter uses cloth for the layup. Cloth on cloth is a lousy layup.
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18-02-2017, 12:44
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#27
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Anyone can feather out a hole on both sides and slop in some resin and cloth.
What scares me are the people that read it and disregard the importance of temp. and humidity and total penetration by the resin. Or for that matter uses cloth for the layup. Cloth on cloth is a lousy layup.
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With epoxy the cloth on cloth layup is the strongest one can make. Fiberglass mat, even when you get the type compatible with epoxy, is only good for preventing print-through.
Also, there is no question that epoxy bonds stronger, much stronger, to a cured polyester laminate than polyester. That doesn't mean that a repair with polyester fails... only that it would fail sooner than when epoxy was used. I would use polyester for very large area repairs so as to keep things equal (no hard spot) in the hull. For small repairs like this one, the hard spot is already there and has been since cutting the hole.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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18-02-2017, 12:52
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#28
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Anyone can feather out a hole on both sides and slop in some resin and cloth.
What scares me are the people that read it and disregard the importance of temp. and humidity and total penetration by the resin. Or for that matter uses cloth for the layup. Cloth on cloth is a lousy layup.
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In my experience, no they cannot. I witness botched DIY (and some hired) fibreglass repair work all the time.
PS, IMHO, feathering this type of repair on both sides could be detrimental.
PSS, lots of pros use cloth on cloth or cloth on roving (just heavier cloth) all the time. I prefer alternating mat and cloth and/or roving for certain layups, but it certainly isn't mandatory for all.
So there ya go.
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18-02-2017, 13:28
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod
In my experience, no they cannot. I witness botched DIY (and some hired) fibreglass repair work all the time.
PS, IMHO, feathering this type of repair on both sides could be detrimental.
PSS, lots of pros use cloth on cloth or cloth on roving (just heavier cloth) all the time. I prefer alternating mat and cloth and/or roving for certain layups, but it certainly isn't mandatory for all.
So there ya go.
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Just my humble opinion. The use of mat as an intermediate layer is essential, even if light mat since it has no real tensile strength but makes the bond better . Roving or cloth for a small repair, cloth would probably fair easier. Roving for large. I guess they make things like triaxle products today and I cannot comment on them.
I'm wondering about buying such small quantities
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18-02-2017, 16:27
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 2,251
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Re: Reducing hole size for thru hull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Just my humble opinion. The use of mat as an intermediate layer is essential, even if light mat since it has no real tensile strength but makes the bond better . Roving or cloth for a small repair, cloth would probably fair easier. Roving for large. I guess they make things like triaxle products today and I cannot comment on them.
I'm wondering about buying such small quantities
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For repair work 1708 biaxial is the only way to go. It has epoxy compatible mat and stitched unidirectional fibers. much stronger than woven roving and produces a much smoother finish that requires less fairing work.
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