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Jon Hacking · 21-12-2010, 17:44

Our French Wauquiez catamaran has Goiot 102387 Escape Hatches, 45x32cm. Now 15 years old, the polycarbonate is trying to pop out of the aluminum frames. New hatches are (gulp) $2,600 each, & we have 2, so I'd like to repair rather than replace, if it can be done safely.

Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing? Goiot sells a repair kit but the chemicals can't fly & we haven't found it here in Malaysia. We've seen a website talk about using Sikaflex-295UV and 206G&P primer, which we can get here.

Our escape hatches are only a few inches above the water so they take a lot of pounding. We swapped out the original plastic handles for aluminum back in 2001. But I'm an electrical type & way out of my depth here, so any help would be much appreciated.

**boatman61** · 21-12-2010, 17:49

Clean and prep well and you should be fine with the Sika.... its main purpose is as a sealant... not bonding strength... although it pretty good there as well...LOL

CAELESTIS · 21-12-2010, 19:12

Jon, try this link http://plastimousa.com/Goiot%20Hatches%202.pdf

Also, Marisafe is right next door.

Email:
customercare@marisafe.com

Telephone:
Toll-Free 866.362.7472

Fax:
Toll-Free 866.962.7472

Mail:
MariSafe, Inc.
Customer Care
7455 16th Street East #107
Sarasota, FL 34243

beetle · 21-12-2010, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Now 15 years old, the polycarbonate is trying to pop out of the aluminum frames.

Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing? Goiot sells a repair kit but the chemicals can't fly & we haven't found it here in Malaysia. We've seen a website talk about using Sikaflex-295UV and 206G&P primer, which we can get here.

Yes, I've replaced lenses in large deck hatches - it takes a couple of days for materials to cure, and then you should be good to go. And use lots of masking tape to protect the lens from the adhesive/sealant.

What material will the replacement hatch lens be made of (Plexiglass/acrylic, polycarbonate, something else...?)

What material is frame made of? Aluminum, Al-Mag, Stainless, etc.... painted, anodized, bare?

the bonding material needs to be compatible with the lens and the metal.

A photo of the hatch would be helpful to get an idea of how much surface area of the frame is available to bond to the lens.

That said, if Goiot has the materials and can tell you how to use them, you would be best to figure out how to source those materials and use Goiot's knowledge/instructions to do the replacement - that will be your best bet in the long run.

- rob/beetle

Jon Hacking · 22-12-2010, 07:25

Thanks for all the help, all of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beetle

...What material will the replacement hatch lens be made of (Plexiglass/acrylic, polycarbonate, something else...?)

What material is frame made of? Aluminum, Al-Mag, Stainless, etc.... painted, anodized, bare?

the bonding material needs to be compatible with the lens and the metal.

A photo of the hatch would be helpful to get an idea of how much surface area of the frame is available to bond to the lens.

That said, if Goiot has the materials and can tell you how to use them, you would be best to figure out how to source those materials and use Goiot's knowledge/instructions to do the replacement - that will be your best bet in the long run. - rob/beetle

Rob, the existing windows seem to be in OK condition, so we were not planning to replace them, just rebed them. I believe Goiot uses polycarbonate in those hatches, but I don't know for sure.

The frames for the Goiot 102387 Escape Hatches are aluminum, which I believe has been passivated or annodized, but again, I'm not sure. How would I tell?

I wish we could find the Goiot-specific adhesive out here, but I seriously doubt Goiot has a dealer in Malaysia. We haven't been able to find one. But a 3rd party website mentioned using Sikaflex-295UV and 206G&P primer.

I have a lot of respect for Sikaflex polysulfides, but these hatches are essentially underwater much of the time, so that seal has got to be very good & very strong. And it's not something I can repair later. If I stuff it up the first time, I end up with 2 giant holes at the waterline. Embarassing, to say the least... Anything to improve the odds would be much appreciated.

I'll try to get a photo, but I probably won't be able to get a meaningful one until we haul, probably on Monday, 27 Dec.

**boatman61** · 22-12-2010, 07:31

Well I've used Sika on keels and its been fine... surely the hatches are secured to an inner frame with bolts/screws of some kind... can't believe they just rely on the bedding....

beetle · 22-12-2010, 08:38

for polycarbonate lens into an aluminum frame, GE Silicone SSG4000 Ultraglaze is a structural one-part adhesive/sealant suitable for bonding polycarbonates/lexan to aluminum. It comes in a standard caulking tube, and does not require priming the polycarbonate. It is important to lightly scratch/sand the polycarbonate where the joint will be such that all surface coatings are removed. The old adhesive must be removed from the frame, as well as any corrosion/oxidation in the metal.

To do the work you should remove the lens-frame from the hatch, and set up on a horizontal work bench - it will take several days for the material to cure, and you do not want to be working on an upside down hatch.

Note for polycarbonates - do not use a bonding material that produces ammonia as part of the cure process; this will craze the polycarbonate.

Note also that polycarbonates have a high thermal expansion / contraction relative to acrylics - if you replace a polycarbonate lens the new lens must be a tiny bit smaller than the metal frame; if the new lens is a press-fit to exactly fit the frame the polycarbonate may crack over time.

In looking at the Sikaflex 295UV info, it looks like that should work for polycarbonate to aluminum. 295UV is a polyurethane, SSG4000 is a silicone.

What material does Goiot recommend?

- rob/beetle

beetle · 22-12-2010, 12:08

I looked at the picture of that hatch on the Goiot website, and the only support is on the perimeter of the lens.

According to Goiot, at least the current hatch lens is acrylic, not polycarbonate. Acrylics are much easier to bond with than polycarbonates. I mostly work with polycarbonates as the material is better at absorbing shock loads than acrylic (polycarbonates like to bend rather than crack).

I expect that there are several structural adhesives that will make that joint. Sure would like to know what the Goiot 101715 'glue & primer' are.

3M recommends NOT using 5200 for this purpose.

There are several silicone structural adhesives out there, DOW 795 is one - but I do not know how well SSG4000 or the DOW 795 will adhere to acrylic. I know that SSG4000 works well for polycarbonate on aluminum.

- rob/beetle

Lucey Blue · 02-02-2013, 21:29

Hi Jon,

I note you have finished your refit and was wondering what adhesive you used on your Goiot Escape Hatches and if you ran into any problems. Your website/blog is fantastic, but I could not find much on re-bedding the escape hatch windows.

Cheers
Nick

NorthPacific · 03-02-2013, 12:44

Funny you should ask, as I have a Dufour 35 with same brand hatches. would like to replace main hatches as they are well grazed over the years. Heard people talk a lot about butyle tape (spelling). I had a smaller hatch break years ago and even when I took it to the big city I had no luck. it has refused to bed and leaks like a sieve.

CAELESTIS · 03-02-2013, 13:10

[QUOTE=CAELESTIS;583069]Jon, try this link http://plastimousa.com/Goiot%20Hatches%202.pdf

This is the US importer for all Goiot hatches and associated parts.

NorthPacific · 03-02-2013, 13:16

Frigging great!

Cheers Caelestis! I need three bits of kit for my hatches which I never thought I would find, never got a word back from france, so this is very helpful just the job!

MAde my day.

StarfishEntrprs · 14-06-2021, 07:50

John, looking at the same prospect on our Lagoon 11 years later - how did this work out? Did you use 295 + 206? Any tips appreciated. ~Patrick

Jon Hacking · 14-06-2021, 09:12

Wow. Talk about a zombie thread coming back to life. But I guess I should have finished this.

Turns out that for hatches, acrylic has better UV resistance than polycarbonate. So we redid all 15 deck hatches in acrylic, bedding them in with Sony(!) L6301 silicone sealant & industrial adhesive (oxime type). Everyone on Phuket was using this stuff, Not Sika at all. They've all been wonderful, with no problems at all in the 7 years since we escaped that yard (well, except for some crazing, which is sort of expected given the UV here in the tropics). Although this work of cleaning the old hatches & bedding in the new acrylic happened several times over several weeks, much of it happened during week 97. Searching on "acrylic" will show other places.

The escape hatches were going to be a ton of money to replace, as the frames were pretty shot. Ocelot's not a race boat, so we're extremely unlikely to flip, so we removed the Goiot escape hatches & replaced them with a solid sheet of polycarbonate, bedded with thick 5200 & also held in with bolts (& large washers) with oversized holes, to allow for thermal expansion. So the Lexan is essentially floating on the 5200, with the bolts probably not necessary, but I'm a belts & suspenders kind of guy.

We went with polycarbonate (Lexan) because it's stronger. It doesn't have the UV resistance that acrylic has, but there's not a lot of UV under the boat. It's so nice not having to worry about those silly things leaking anymore.

Thanks again for everyone's help. To keep ourselves from going insane we posted our activities during that refit every evening, with a new page every week. The weekly summaries are the best place to start to see when we worked on what.