Re-insulating My Refrig. Box the Hard Way.

[Typhoon]

Hi Jim

Great job . Glad you got it all together.

Did you like the custom feet I put on your plates ? When there is a small box you may not be able to get a drill in there and a screw driver to mount the plates . That super velcro holds great and no holes to drill . We have used this before with great success.

Let me know as you get the system running how it performs in that great box. It may take a little tinkering to get it to where you want it or it may perform perfectly with the settings we use .

Again , thanks for this great thread and sharing your experience with everyone.

Regards John
www.coldeh.com

[ArmyDaveNY]

It looks great and you've inspired me to start thinking about something similar. Thanks for the post.

[Bleemus]

Great thread and inspirational. Thanks for posting and enjoy.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine

Hi Jim

Great job . Glad you got it all together.

Did you like the custom feet I put on your plates ? When there is a small box you may not be able to get a drill in there and a screw driver to mount the plates . That super velcro holds great and no holes to drill . We have used this before with great success.

Let me know as you get the system running how it performs in that great box. It may take a little tinkering to get it to where you want it or it may perform perfectly with the settings we use .

Again , thanks for this great thread and sharing your experience with everyone.

Regards John
www.coldeh.com

Thank you John,
I will give you an update when the ice cream is frozen and the beer is cold

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

It looks great and you've inspired me to start thinking about something similar. Thanks for the post.

Glad to hear, Thank you!

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Great thread and inspirational. Thanks for posting and enjoy.

Thank you!

[OzePete]

Wow, that's been a lot of work!

It is hard to know for sure if the insulation is ok or not, and if in doubt replace it, but were there any tell tale signs before you started that indicated the original insulation needed replacing? Also, was the old insulation wet when you removed it?

One trick to help determining if insulation is wet/ defective or not is to place a large quantity of dry ice inside the middle of the cabinet with a small circulation fan. (DON'T seal the lid / door!) Leave for several hours then use a digital thermometer to check walls / base etc where possible. Usually wet insulation occurs in patches and would show up as cold areas when checking, otherwise if the wall / base etc is not sweating and temperature is consistent, then the insulation may not be defective.

Cheers OzePete

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by OzePete

Wow, that's been a lot of work!

It is hard to know for sure if the insulation is ok or not, and if in doubt replace it, but were there any tell tale signs before you started that indicated the original insulation needed replacing? Also, was the old insulation wet when you removed it?

One trick to help determining if insulation is wet/ defective or not is to place a large quantity of dry ice inside the middle of the cabinet with a small circulation fan. (DON'T seal the lid / door!) Leave for several hours then use a digital thermometer to check walls / base etc where possible. Usually wet insulation occurs in patches and would show up as cold areas when checking, otherwise if the wall / base etc is not sweating and temperature is consistent, then the insulation may not be defective.

Cheers OzePete

Sorry, I should have said OUTER wall/ base etc. Outside and under cabinet if possible.

Cheers OzePete

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by OzePete

Wow, that's been a lot of work!

It is hard to know for sure if the insulation is ok or not, and if in doubt replace it, but were there any tell tale signs before you started that indicated the original insulation needed replacing? Also, was the old insulation wet when you removed it?

One trick to help determining if insulation is wet/ defective or not is to place a large quantity of dry ice inside the middle of the cabinet with a small circulation fan. (DON'T seal the lid / door!) Leave for several hours then use a digital thermometer to check walls / base etc where possible. Usually wet insulation occurs in patches and would show up as cold areas when checking, otherwise if the wall / base etc is not sweating and temperature is consistent, then the insulation may not be defective.

Cheers OzePete

thanks for your reply,

The test you suggest is interesting and I'm sure it would show any voids in the hidden insulation as well. However, access to the outside of the box is generally very limited. I would think that measuring the inside wall delta temp would reveal some voids or failed insulation also.

The old insulation was wet on one side, but more importantly the foam had degraded to a point of very little R value.

As I pointed out in earlier posts you could scoop it out with your hand. It just turned to powder. SO, I suggest that you need to consider the age of the pour in place foam, it has a useful life of maybe 20 or 30 years. This is a total estimation on my part based on my experience here.

I would love to hear from more knowledgeable experts on the life expectancy of pour in place urethane foam for insulation?

Additionally, what other tests are available to test the existing box and insulation before starting a project like this?

[rgleason]

Thanks for the excellent thread.

Our ozifridge has been installed over ten years now, the boat is 1981, 37 years ago. The box was reasonably insulated originally with dense green polyurethane.
This makes me wonder if it is still good.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

thanks for your reply,

The test you suggest is interesting and I'm sure it would show any voids in the hidden insulation as well. However, access to the outside of the box is generally very limited. I would think that measuring the inside wall delta temp would reveal some voids or failed insulation also.

The old insulation was wet on one side, but more importantly the foam had degraded to a point of very little R value.

As I pointed out in earlier posts you could scoop it out with your hand. It just turned to powder. SO, I suggest that you need to consider the age of the pour in place foam, it has a useful life of maybe 20 or 30 years. This is a total estimation on my part based on my experience here.

I would love to hear from more knowledgeable experts on the life expectancy of pour in place urethane foam for insulation?

Additionally, what other tests are available to test the existing box and insulation before starting a project like this?

Don't know about urethane foam as insulation in refrigerators but the hull of my steel boat was sprayed internally with urethane in 1986 by a company which spray foamed cold rooms and the foam is still pretty well as it was when new. However, it was sprayed with water based house paint to seal it before we installed the inside paneling.

I think OzePete may have meant look for warm spots rather than cold if one is looking on the inside of the box for heat seepage into it.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Thanks for the excellent thread.

Our ozifridge has been installed over ten years now, the boat is 1981, 37 years ago. The box was reasonably insulated originally with dense green polyurethane.
This makes me wonder if it is still good.

I am hardly an authority, but when I was doing my research almost 15 years ago, the wisdom of the time was that urethane insulation would eventually lose its R value, and my boat, at 25 at the time, likely had no meaningful R left in its two inches, which even if it were new, were insufficient.

Richard Kollmann can certainly, if he sees this, set you or me straight, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In our case, even our new 6" worth has been characterized as suspect in other threads, as I keep trying to tweak our new Sea Frost to not gobble electrons quite so voraciously. But getting that 6" was a major construction project; if I were able to use what came with the boat (combo engine and 120VAC cold plates) economically and cold-effectively, I'd have left it.

YMMV, of course.

L8R

Skip

[Hugh17]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

PROJECT POST: #9

As promised I am posting the pictures of the completed box with all fridge components installed.

This was the ColdEh Marine spillover system and all and all I am happy with the ease of installation and design help received.

I am glad to get this project off the list! Well still have a few little items to finish.

Although, this thread didn't receive a lot of attention, I hope it will serve someone on their future project.

Jim

Jim,

I appreciate your post on re-insulating your refrigerator/box the hard way. Your explanation of the process is easy to follow and the pictures answer most questions and add greatly to the process. I have this on my list of future projects and will reference your process all the way through. I've copied every project update and picture and saved in a Word file just in case this thread disappears from the web some day. I would encourage you to format your post into an article and offer it to an appropriate sailing magazine, or if you have it posted in a blog please advise of the link.

I also appreciate ColdEh Marine's input with comments at appropriate times during the thread. This is certainly great publicity for them.

Thanks again,

Hugh

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by Hugh17

Jim,

I appreciate your post on re-insulating your refrigerator/box the hard way. Your explanation of the process is easy to follow and the pictures answer most questions and add greatly to the process. I have this on my list of future projects and will reference your process all the way through. I've copied every project update and picture and saved in a Word file just in case this thread disappears from the web some day. I would encourage you to format your post into an article and offer it to an appropriate sailing magazine, or if you have it posted in a blog please advise of the link.

I also appreciate ColdEh Marine's input with comments at appropriate times during the thread. This is certainly great publicity for them.

Thanks again,

Hugh

Hugh, thank you, I hope it helps with your project.

I have received a lot of advice and guidance from John with ColdEh Marine and he enjoys this as much as we do. I am very happy with my choice of marine refrigeration systems!

I also have learned a lot from all our great and knowledgeable professional members on this forum. They all deserve our consideration when sourcing a new unit.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

I am hardly an authority, but when I was doing my research almost 15 years ago, the wisdom of the time was that urethane insulation would eventually lose its R value, and my boat, at 25 at the time, likely had no meaningful R left in its two inches, which even if it were new, were insufficient.

Richard Kollmann can certainly, if he sees this, set you or me straight, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In our case, even our new 6" worth has been characterized as suspect in other threads, as I keep trying to tweak our new Sea Frost to not gobble electrons quite so voraciously. But getting that 6" was a major construction project; if I were able to use what came with the boat (combo engine and 120VAC cold plates) economically and cold-effectively, I'd have left it.

YMMV, of course.

L8R

Skip

Skip
I agree if ain't broke don't fix it! That's why I hope others will reply with additional suggestions on how to test the insulation of an existing box.

OzePete's test is a smart simple test that anyone can do. I would like to hear more similar simple tests that a anyone can perform on their own.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Don't know about urethane foam as insulation in refrigerators but the hull of my steel boat was sprayed internally with urethane in 1986 by a company which spray foamed cold rooms and the foam is still pretty well as it was when new. However, it was sprayed with water based house paint to seal it before we installed the inside paneling.

I think OzePete may have meant look for warm spots rather than cold if one is looking on the inside of the box for heat seepage into it.

Raymond,
thanks for pointing this out. A friends steel boat I sail on a good bit, and help build, was insulated with spray in urethane foam and then painted to seal it from moisture. Your right it has held up very well.

I think that using the XPS board (blue, pink, board) is arguably the best choice for insulation of a fridge but it is difficult in my case to form to an odd shape working from the inside out.

If I had a nice neat box that was of a uniform cubic, or Trapezoidal shape with flat sides rather than the curved side, I would have used more of the XPS and filled in with pour foam.

Jim

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Thanks for the excellent thread.

Our ozifridge has been installed over ten years now, the boat is 1981, 37 years ago. The box was reasonably insulated originally with dense green polyurethane.
This makes me wonder if it is still good.

Rgleason
Again I'm Know expert but I would be suspect of the insulation too at that age. Especially, after this project. I though mine was fine but John convinced me it was probably crap, and it was. Give Ozipete's test a try and see what you find.

Jim