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Old 10-08-2018, 08:48   #106
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by petermjdavies View Post
Consider Coppercoat or equivalent.
Where does your boat live?
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:53   #107
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

You can get around the zinc problem by using a jumper cable with a sink attached to one end hanging overboard in the water and the other end clamped to the prop shaft at the packing gland inside the engine room.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:54   #108
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Everyone has the right to chose the level to which they wish to maintain their boat. (Unfortunately.)

I see examples ranging from:

1. Continuous owner inflicted damage (by those who believe they have skills they don't actually possess).

2. Zero maintenance (by those who just won't do any).

3. Some maintenance (based on what one wishes to do, new curtains instead of rebed chainplates). (Not that new curtains may not be necessary to protect interior upholstery from damaging UV.)

4. Proper maintenance (all things repaired or replaced before they present a potential danger).

As others have mentioned, it is a crying shame what some people do to boats.

I've been around boats a long time.

I've counted on boats to get me home safe when I'm quickly running out of options.

I've had some of the best time of my life on boats.

On a boat is where I am most comfortable.

To treat a boat poorly is unseamanlike.

Neglecting a boat and not addressing maintenance issues promptly should be considered a sin.

If one can't be bothered or afford to maintain a boat properly, they should give it away or sell it (if it has any value left now that they are done with it) to someone else.

A proper independent marine survey by a SAMs or NAMs accredited professional is the correct place to start.

It doesn't matter if the boat is worth $500 or $500,000.

The surveyor will inspect the boat against marine industry standards and best practices to which the surveyor is intimately familiar, through reading, education, practice, and formal examination.

Reading "How to Inspect the Aging Sailboat", watching YouTube, and wandering yards inspecting derelict boats, does not make one a professional marine surveyor. Not even close.

A competent surveyor will spend several hours at the boat (dependent on size and system complexity). They will check and test construction and systems against standards that have been developed by industry professionals over many, many years, having the common goal to make boats safer.

They will prepare a comprehensive report, that indicates issues that urgently require addressing (and why), are due for addressing shortly, and that should be monitored. They will assess current fair market value. The surveyor will not likely instruct "how" to perform the repair, but should be called back to re-inspect any DIY repair (and some "so called" pro repairs), to ensure the repair is sound and meets standards.

THIS IS THE BARE MINIMUM.

The actual level a boat should be repaired and maintained to, to ensure ongoing safety, performance, and asset value retention is much higher.

Simple examples include:

1. Resin potting and rebedding all thru deck fittings (after addressing existing moisture ingress).

2. Addressing manufacturer maintenance recommendations for all systems, especially the engine. Way too many people wait for things to break, before addressing them. Performing proper maintenance SAVES money rather than costs money.

3. Updating electronics greater than 10 years old (15 in freshwater only boats).

4. Rewire AC / DC electrical system greater than 20 years old (30 in freshwater) or bastardized by DPO (more likely). In the mean time, technological advancements that improve safety should be employed. For example, any vessel with an AC shore power system that doesn't have an ELCI, should. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. It does cost, but not nearly as much as the anguish should someone die because they fell in the water near your boat that unbeknownst to you (because nothing has broke yet) has developed a ground fault.

5. Full inspection of standing and running rigging every year, replace as needed. Complete replacement of running at least every 5 years, standing every 10, (double in freshwater).

6. Full inspection of sails annually or every 1000 hours, whichever comes first.

7. Professional, independent marine survey every 5 years.

Every time I hear someone state, "If it ain't broke don't fix it" it makes me shudder. This is the mantra of the landlubber, who can step out of their house if the plumbing fails and it floods, or the wiring fails and it burns. Someone who does not have the skills to maintain properly and ends up causing more harm when they try to, so the solution is to avoid.

Some people think they can skip maintenance because, "Well we don't use the boat that much". WRONG! Some parts of a boat less used wear out faster, AND the owner is less in tune with the boat to even know what is going on.

So back to the OP, if the surveyor says the bottom needs painting, paint the dang bottom. Delaying is just hurting performance, increasing maintenance before it finally gets done anyway, decreasing fair market value, and making future remediation more difficult.

While you are at it, address ALL of the other maintenance and repair issues related to safety and performance. Then go through the engine owners manual and replace everything that the previous owners maintenance log (oh yeah, right) indicates hasn't been completed within the specified time. (Keep anything taken off as a known fitting and working spare.)

Hold off adding the (for example) new 1000 W stereo system (and any other "improvement" that is not related to safety and vessel performance) until ALL of the other IMPORTANT stuff is done. (Hopefully, you won't have enough money left over to do the stupid stuff you are contemplating.)

(When I inspect a boat for potential purchase, about half the time is spent determining how well the boat has aged, and the other half is determining how badly previously owners have ruined it, either through neglect or good intentions.)

IMHO, replacing an inboard diesel engine with an outboard on a bracket, devalues a boat from a potential high FMV to a "free boat" (which means negative FMV), and is a darn shame.

The FMV lost is greater than the savings gained by avoiding the repair, rebuild, or replacement, and the vessel is far less safe and reliable.

The only way this can be justified is if the vessel has no FMV left, due to all the other issues resulting from chronic lack of maintenance. The few components of value it has left are far outweighed by the maintenance required to be sound and well found.

The boat has no real value, it is just waiting for loss of interest by the current owner before ending up in land fill, some sucker who thinks they don't need a professional marine survey and are getting a "great deal", or if the boat is really, really, lucky, someone who feels its potential, addresses all professional, independent marine survey issues, and pours a boat load of money and/or sweat equity into it, to do what should have been done by previous owners all along.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:27   #109
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

James Baldwin circumnavigated with an outboard.

Robin Lee Graham sailed 3/4 the globe with an outboard.

James Baldwin's outboard was on a bracket at first. He later moved it to the Aft Lazarette locker and made a well.

He has completed numerous refits on the boat he's been sailing since the early 1980's. His boat still has an outboard

The condition of his boat should be the goal of anyone with a Good Old Boat if he plans to keep it

Atom Voyages - The Sailboat Atom

All boats need maintenance. Just make sure it's the correct maintenance.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:32   #110
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Where does your boat live?
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:57   #111
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
James Baldwin circumnavigated with an outboard.

Robin Lee Graham sailed 3/4 the globe with an outboard.

James Baldwin's outboard was on a bracket at first. He later moved it to the Aft Lazarette locker and made a well.

He has completed numerous refits on the boat he's been sailing since the early 1980's. His boat still has an outboard

The condition of his boat should be the goal of anyone with a Good Old Boat if he plans to keep it

Atom Voyages - The Sailboat Atom

All boats need maintenance. Just make sure it's the correct maintenance.
Yup, some people do really really dumb things and manage to get away with it. Not even Darwin is 100% reliable.
So you can cite 3 examples of people who have done long passages with outboards, compared to 30,000 + who have done it with inboards. How many attempting it with an outboard have lost the boat, perished, or put other at risk to save their butt?
PS, one of the examples you cited lost his mind in the middle of the ocean and intentionally set his boat on fire.

You should evaluatr your supporting evidence with higher scrutiny. More proof you need an independent professional Marine survey. ;-)
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:47   #112
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Yup, some people do really really dumb things and manage to get away with it. Not even Darwin is 100% reliable.
So you can cite 3 examples of people who have done long passages with outboards, compared to 30,000 + who have done it with inboards. How many attempting it with an outboard have lost the boat, perished, or put other at risk to save their butt?
PS, one of the examples you cited lost his mind in the middle of the ocean and intentionally set his boat on fire.

You should evaluatr your supporting evidence with higher scrutiny. More proof you need an independent professional Marine survey. ;-)
My point was that in some cases an outboard doesn't necessarily devalue your boat, and that you can sail long distances with an outboard as your main auxiliary engine. My boat actually had the option of an outboard in the well when new

I have one (an outboard) because at first I didn't know how long I would keep this boat. (the outboard and tank was $1,550) Plus I didn't like the loud, leaky, smelly diesel that was originally in the boat.

So after it failed, I went with a new outboard which allowed me to get rid of the ancient diesel fuel tank, the copper fuel line, and greasy/oily motor mounts. This in turn allowed me to totally clean the 2" of oily crude out of the bilge and degrease and clean the engine area

Plus I figured I'd only use the outboard to dock with, (since my last 4 sailboats didn't have engines period) but after a while of being stuck 20 miles from my slip with no wind (and the wrong tide) after sitting for hours and needing to get back, I cranked up my big 5 hp and motored home

Since that time a few years ago, I use the outboard when there's no wind, when I need help getting my good old boat to point (if I'm in a hurry), and if I'm trying to gain leverage on the wind so I can tack and sail toward my destination usually on a return trip trying to get back South

Old diesel fuel tank and some of the other crap the PO left on the boat. He must have been a bit of a pack rat but I never got to meet him.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:51   #113
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Everyone has the right to chose the level to which they wish to maintain their boat. (Unfortunately.)

I see examples ranging from:

1. Continuous owner inflicted damage (by those who believe they have skills they don't actually possess).
Rod, I've been reading all of your comments and honestly, you seem pretty arrogant. You know everything and nobody else knows anything. And you seem to be hung up on the word "proper" which apparently means "done by someone other than the owner", and "paid for".

I've been messing around in boats for 50 years, and living aboard, sailing, racing and cruising full time for the last 35 years. I do most all of my own maintenance, repairs, and upgrades, and you will just be showing further arrogance if you say or imply that I couldn't possibly be doing it correctly, improperly, because I didn't hire somebody.

As for hiring professionals, I've had a lot of good luck over the years but some bad ones too (certified surveyors who completely botched the job, a marine electrician who ripped out wiring because he didn't understand why AC from the inverter was present when the shore power plug was disconnected, etc).

As for replacing electronics simply because they are 10 years old? Poppy cock. My B&G system is 35 years old and works really good most of the time, with periodic repairs. When it doesn't I do without it until I can fix it. It would cost me $8000 or more to replace just the B&G sailing instruments with a comparable system, and why should I? Plus my Signet depth sounder, (one of three depth sounders we have in operation at all times) has worked continuously for over 40 years and I have a spare below decks ready to install. I have two back-up GPS and charting systems, a spare autopilot, etc. and in worst case, I don't need ANY of these electronics to sail my boat home, stormy weather or otherwise, if I need to. Hand bearing compass, paper charts, and good sailing skills will get us through. Losing your electronics doesn't mean someone will die, as you repeatedly imply.

I've met guys like you, nothing is ever good enough for you, and you don't care what it costs the owner as long as you aren't paying for it.

No I am convinced that your advice is basically justification to get ignorant (and fearful) owners with excess money to waste it on your services. You fail totally to consider the cost benefit of ANYTHING and all you can fall back on is the fear tactic of "what if it fails in a storm?".

I have my own beefs about poorly maintained and neglected boats, believe me, but your purist approach is way overkill, and thomm225's approach is far more reasonable. I laud him and others like him and I warn people to stay away from guys like you.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:04   #114
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by ferrailleur View Post
I'm ready to close on buying my first keelboat (Catalina 27). I had her hauled out for a survey out of the water. We scraped out a lot of barnacles and pressure washed the hull. The surveyor said that the paint was exhausted.
My question: since we did a quick cleaning before launching her again could the antifouling paint job be postponed for some 14 more months. I intend to leave her on my slip this winter and hauled her before the winter of 2019.
Any problem delaying the needed antifouling paint job?
Thanks
Since your boat is back in the water you've lost the best opportunity to have painted it while it was already out and clean. Now you will need to have the bottom cleaned at least monthly. Allowing it to sit with accumulation of growth is poor maintenance and barnacles growing on bare glass or gel coat will damage the finish, permanently.

14 months? What about next summer? I assume you bought the boat to sail it. If so it needs a clean bottom. So I recommend you have it cleaned every month this winter and a new bottom job done in the spring, and then annually from then on.

We've hauled and done our bottom every year for 38 years, even though we could have gotten by with frequent bottom cleaning and many other people do it less frequently. It always sails faster with fresh bottom paint, and anyhow there are usually other reasons to have the boat out of the water after a year of use.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:22   #115
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Wingsail: +1
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:48   #116
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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In your area you have to be aware of polyestermites. They can bore right into a fiberglass hull without bottom paint. They're not as much of a problem in fresh water, though, so maybe going up a river would be a good idea.

Are they anything like tinworms, the little critters that burrow under your car's paint and cause blisters, usually near a weld line ?
https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/...pril-fool-1167
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:51   #117
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Yup, some people do really really dumb things and manage to get away with it. Not even Darwin is 100% reliable.
So you can cite 3 examples of people who have done long passages with outboards, compared to 30,000 + who have done it with inboards. How many attempting it with an outboard have lost the boat, perished, or put other at risk to save their butt?
PS, one of the examples you cited lost his mind in the middle of the ocean and intentionally set his boat on fire.

You should evaluatr your supporting evidence with higher scrutiny. More proof you need an independent professional Marine survey. ;-)
Ron.
Pardon me that is BS. With todays outboards used as an auxiliary on a boat that someone wants to sail, what is the problem? Using the OB to make the marina? Take a look at the
Sea Tow, Tow boat or the USCG ribs. All have OBs. Not advocating 300HP X 2 on a sail boat but the reliability of OBs is no longer the two stroke era.

If I were driving a displacement hull for extended periods you bet I would prefer a diesel.
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Old 10-08-2018, 13:00   #118
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Don't **** with the sea,or even a substantial lake or river. Water is a very unforgiving environment, and it WILL bite your ass if you take it for granted. You never beat the sea,or a storm at sea. It usually lets you away with your boat and your life.
As for outboard motors: They are fine as a backup for your main propulsion system, whether that is another engine or sail.
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Old 10-08-2018, 14:15   #119
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Delaying PM (preventative maintenance)?

This can circle around the bushwhack you at the worst time. How much fun can you handle?
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Old 10-08-2018, 20:48   #120
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Delaying PM (preventative maintenance)?



This can circle around the bushwhack you at the worst time. How much fun can you handle?


Yeap. It’s called preventative maintenance for a reason fix it before it breaks
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