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Old 05-08-2018, 14:38   #61
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Not true.

Electrical and electronics mortality curves look like a bathtub curve, initially very high, and then dropping rapidly leveling out at near zero, in 5 years the sloping increase starts. At the 10 year level, one can expect anywhere from 10 to 25% mortality. Some may work for years and years after, but you are on borrowed time and at a much higher risk of failure with each passing year. This is why electrical and electronic systems that are 10 years old are a nil with respect to average value.
I would agree. If purchasing a boat I would not value old electronic as an asset .
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Old 05-08-2018, 14:57   #62
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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I would agree. If purchasing a boat I would not value old electronic as an asset .
And you shouldn't view them as an asset, but like an old Sony CRT TV, they can last a very long time

It's the same with the anchor thing, it all depends on where you are and what you are using them for.

You can sail/cruise for $10,000 or $150,000 plus. It's all up to you
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Old 05-08-2018, 15:40   #63
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Unfortunately I have to point out that you and the member who gave you the thumbs up are both wrong. There are tons of racing boats - a la J boats - that sail more than most who keep unpainted bottoms.
Apples and oranges chief, and not what Dsanduril was advocating in any event. Drysailing a boat off a trailer is not nearly the same thing as keeping a boat in a wet slip without anti fouling paint. I know this because I have been cleaning boat bottoms for 24 years and have plenty of actual experience cleaning unpainted bottoms. The last racer without paint that I took care of needed cleaning every other day for the month she was in the water here in the Bay Area. Now she is drysailed in SoCal.
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Old 05-08-2018, 16:01   #64
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Dental filling material was developed as a synthetic of barnacle adhesive. Scratching off the shell is nothing. Getting its foot off is something else.
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Old 05-08-2018, 16:18   #65
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Anybody who believes this has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
Well, we can agree to disagree. I've only been sailing for 40 years. 20 of those in your own Bay Area out of Richmond. And I used to do what you do, for a living, in the Bay Area.

I've had a boat there, in the water, that didn't have an antifouling job for 14 years. Sailed just fine, with a nice clean bottom, because I was willing to jump in and do the work on a regular basis (in Richmond it was about every 4 weeks). Is it for everyone? Probably not. But for the OP so he can have this sailing season, and then antifoul next year? Possibly, depends on how much effort he wants to put in. On a boat that size, if starting from clean, it should take less than an hour, and can be done by coming down to the dock and jumping in just before you go out for the day. And you can do it all with a snorkel.

But, it does have to be like a religion. If you pause a bit, and let the barnacles take hold, well, then it just becomes exponentially harder (as I am sure you are well aware and I'd guess you charge more for owners like that).

[Edit] - And, yes, I do have antifouling on the current boat, and generally do have antifouling. It allows more latitude and less work. I'm not advocating not ever doing it, and I don't think the OP was trying to get there. He (and I) was just trying to rescue the end of a single season, and there are ways to do that. [/edit]
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Old 05-08-2018, 16:49   #66
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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I've had a boat there, in the water, that didn't have an antifouling job for 14 years. Sailed just fine, with a nice clean bottom, because I was willing to jump in and do the work on a regular basis (in Richmond it was about every 4 weeks).
Bwahahahaha! You must have a very unusual definition of what constitutes a "nice clean bottom" and "sails just fine" means

Take it from me folks, anti fouling paint is more than a "convenience" for boat owners. If your boat lives in saltwater, it is a necessity. Going without it is a recipe for heartache and headache, despite what this guy claims.
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:23   #67
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

It is VERY VERY hard to remove shell / barnacle pods from a boat without antifouling. Take my word. Been there, overpainted that.

b.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:52   #68
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

So the last time I pulled my boat for a bottom job, (2014/2015) the entire bottom of the keel was covered with barnacles

The boat had been at a marina when I bought it that could only be gotten to near high tide so many times I'd scrape the bottom coming and going. Plus the boat sat in the mud during low tide

The same with the area near where the prop shaft had been. It wasn't sanded/treated properly after fiber glassing and it was covered with barnacles

The boat yard's pressure wash didn't remove them either.

I did it with the sander and a scrapper
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:39   #69
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

More on bottom jobs from another newbie sailor except she's already made it to Florida from Canada via the ICW

https://www.dinghydreams.com/
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:28   #70
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Oh, the irony. The eye-roh-nee!

Got a call this morning from a guy with an unpainted Corsair F-31 in Alameda. Been in the water for three weeks and he wants the bottom cleaned before he puts the boat on its trailer. By his own admission, "It's pretty bad." I took a pass on the job, as I typically do for unpainted bottoms.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:40   #71
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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Oh, the irony. The eye-roh-nee!

Got a call this morning from a guy with an unpainted Corsair F-31 in Alameda. Been in the water for three weeks and he wants the bottom cleaned before he puts the boat on its trailer. By his own admission, "It's pretty bad." I took a pass on the job, as I typically do for unpainted bottoms.
The only irony is that it happened during this thread. My guess is it sat in crappy water for 3 weeks without sailing or at least one scrubbing while in the water.

Ask him if he'd mind sharing his contact info and PM me with it; I'd be glad to chat with him and find out the details, and offer some advice since I know the boats.

Any boat sitting in muck for 3 weeks would at least need a scrub. That's why I mentioned putting on a trailer after sailing or hoisting on a lift. Those folks won't be calling you, ironically enough.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:46   #72
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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The only irony is that it happened during this thread. My guess is it sat in crappy water for 3 weeks without sailing or at least one scrubbing while in the water.
You completely missed the point, as you have for this entire thread. Disanduril made the assertion that in the Bay Area, an unpainted bottom can go for a month in the water, uncleaned and still be in good shape and ready to sail fast. That is complete nonsense, as the phone call I received this morning illustrates.

And no, I am not going to give you the guy's contact info. He is an experienced owner and doesn't need any help from you. The boat was sold, the buyer since disappeared and the marina wants it gone. Hence, it sitting for three weeks untended.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:20   #73
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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You completely missed the point, as you have for this entire thread. Disanduril made the assertion that in the Bay Area, an unpainted bottom can go for a month in the water, uncleaned and still be in good shape and ready to sail fast. That is complete nonsense, as the phone call I received this morning illustrates.

And no, I am not going to give you the guy's contact info. He is an experienced owner and doesn't need any help from you. The boat was sold, the buyer since disappeared and the marina wants it gone. Hence, it sitting for three weeks untended.
First of all, you have no need to be rude. This thread was NOT about your beliefs; it was about the OP's question. If you look at post #10, I agreed the OP should get the bottom job - immediately while it's out.

My comments about going without bottom paint were not to agree with leaving a boat out for months with no paint; they were to point out that there are boats who never use bottom paint and do well; they're just on lifts or trailers. My comment was directed only at this:

"there's no reason you can't sail a clean bottom for years (decades) without any antifouling.
Anybody who believes this has absolutely no idea what he's talking about."


As for offering help to the owner, it was only because the folding tris have been using a new polish that apparently helps. That was my reason for offering, which you so evidently dismissed.
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Old 06-08-2018, 13:56   #74
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

Here's my point about your posts in this thread; you continue to conflate drysailing with keeping a boat in the water. As far as anti fouling paint and its performance goes, they are not the same thing at all and one cannot be compared to the other. Of course a boat with no anti fouling paint can be kept clean- IF YOU DON'T KEEP IT IN THE WATER! Unfortunately, drysailed boats are not the topic of discussion in this thread. Not sure why you have failed to grasp that.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:06   #75
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Re: postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

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This is my point.

The old electronics on my boat hasn't failed

Also, unless you are actually cruising long distance as in crossing oceans you can many times make do with a compass if your old electronics were to fail

Even cruising long distance if you take a lightning strike, a couple backup handheld compasses are nice to have

It seems many on CF are planning to cruise or motoring the ICW. Old electronics is fine for this.

For offshore sailing, you could buy old backup electronics just like what's on your boat. Basically have a set of spares at very low cost


Picture of GPS like mine attached. Works great! And my Humminbird 200 Sx Depth finder
I discard equipment of that era all the time.

Not reliable.

It may work today, but there is too high of a risk it could fail tomorrow.

Way past life expectancy.

A proper maintenance program includes replacing stuff like this before it is likely to fail.

Marine electronics become increasingly likely to fail after 10 years, especially in a saltwater environment.

It is the sudden failure that is the issue.

Whether one knows how to repair them to the component level is moot.

Counting on that to justify keeping old stuff on the boat until it breaks, to avoid the expense of proper maintenance is not good seamanship.

Nor is carrying spare "long past due for replacement" redundant electronics.

On a fair weather day, it may be no big deal if it quits working, and you can drift along while you dig old (hopefully not saltwater logged) spares out of the bowels of a locker and dick around for however long it takes to cobble something into some semblance of functionality.

What if it "gives up" during a thunderstorm while you are trying to claw of a lee shore in zero visibility?

The prudent sailor knows to be weary of brand new installed systems, until time dictates they are reliable (and you pass the high start of the bathtub curve and transition to the level near zero mortality rate.)

After 48 hours of flawless operation, you can pretty much expect you are past the "broke right out of the box" segment, or the bad application / installation possibility.

From there, there is about a 98% chance you won't have a problem for the next 5 years. But then, you start climbing the other side of the bathtub curve. The likelihood of failure is on the increase, but still fairly infrequent, about 10 to 25%, until about 10 years old. But after this, the likelihood continues to increase with each year.

If one wants electronics they can count on to work, they should be replaced about every 10 years.

If one doesn't feel they need electronics they can count on, then there is really no point in having electronics at all, except to give one something to tinker with when it breaks.

Anyway, to the OP, sorry for the drift to electronics, but the principle remains the same.

It is never too early to practice good seamanship and employ sound preventative maintenance.

This goes for every boat system, including the anti-fouling.

If one can't afford to maintain a boat properly, they shouldn't own one. They are just putting themselves and others at needless risk, wrecking a boat that could be saved, by someone with the means to do so.
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