Play or slop in tiller

[Bruce949]

Hi,

I’m a novice sailor with only a little fundamental knowledge on sailing, so please forgive me if I use improper terms or names.

I recently purchased a Pearson 30 and I’ve found there’s some troubling play or slop in the tiller/rudder, which has made it tiring to keep her on a straight course in some conditions. I’ve done a good deal of research on my own to try to find the cause and solution but I think I’ve gone as far as I can without asking for advice–which leads me here.

What I’ve determined so far is that the play isn’t derived from the rudder bushings (so I don’t believe I need to haul her out and drop the rudder) and I believe it’s from the tiller or rudder head and bracket assembly. When I’ve taken a good look while she’s in her slip I find that I can move the tiller handle slightly left and right without the rudder post moving at all, which is why I think the issue is in the tiller/rudder head and that I need to replace, or reinforce somehow, the assembly. But I don’t know enough about this to even begin the process without asking some questions first and I’d appreciate any advice or direction I can get!

(Image should be attached)

First, it looks to me like the tiller head (or is it the rudder head?) was put on backwards...shouldn’t the bracket connect on the stern side, to give it more leverage over the assembly?


1. Is this the bolt that stops the rudder from dropping out of the shaft?
2. This is where I believe the play/slop is happening–does the wear here look normal? Would you speculate that I need a whole new assembly or could this be fixed relatively easily? If I need to replace it are these parts mostly specific to certain boats or are they generally universal?
3. Is this the bolt to loosen to just remove the tiller from the rudder?

Thanks for any wisdom you can offer!

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard Bruce!
First, I don't have a Pearson 30 but I'll take a stab at a few things I see. The tiller head looks to be aluminum and it does look to be cracked, and probably worn around the bolt labeled #2. I believe you are right that removing that bolt allows the rudder to be dropped. If that hole the bolt is in has been worn or stretched, if it is cracked, then yes there will be slop. I have seen tiller heads for sale, but not like that one. But I bet you can find a replacement or have one made. And, is the rudder turned 180 degrees or is the head mounted backwards? The jaws should be coming down over the head, yes.
In your case, if I am seeing cracks in there, I'd work on replacing it.
Good luck! Hope some Pearson 30 owners see this and chime in!

[coopec43]

Pearson 30 Rudder - loose?
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/th...-loose.128182/

Buying Pearson 30 - Anything to look out for??
7 Oct 2002 — They are also know for developing rudder problems and I remember hearing about a guy who used built replica rudders for the P-30''s and ..
https://www.sailnet.com/threads/buyi...-out-for.5154/


https://sailboatdata.com/storage/ima...30_drawing.jpg

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Bruce949

Hi,

I’m a novice sailor with only a little fundamental knowledge on sailing, so please forgive me if I use improper terms or names.

I recently purchased a Pearson 30 and I’ve found there’s some troubling play or slop in the tiller/rudder, which has made it tiring to keep her on a straight course in some conditions. I’ve done a good deal of research on my own to try to find the cause and solution but I think I’ve gone as far as I can without asking for advice–which leads me here.

What I’ve determined so far is that the play isn’t derived from the rudder bushings (so I don’t believe I need to haul her out and drop the rudder) and I believe it’s from the tiller or rudder head and bracket assembly. When I’ve taken a good look while she’s in her slip I find that I can move the tiller handle slightly left and right without the rudder post moving at all, which is why I think the issue is in the tiller/rudder head and that I need to replace, or reinforce somehow, the assembly. But I don’t know enough about this to even begin the process without asking some questions first and I’d appreciate any advice or direction I can get!

(Image should be attached)

First, it looks to me like the tiller head (or is it the rudder head?) was put on backwards...shouldn’t the bracket connect on the stern side, to give it more leverage over the assembly?


1. Is this the bolt that stops the rudder from dropping out of the shaft?
2. This is where I believe the play/slop is happening–does the wear here look normal? Would you speculate that I need a whole new assembly or could this be fixed relatively easily? If I need to replace it are these parts mostly specific to certain boats or are they generally universal?
3. Is this the bolt to loosen to just remove the tiller from the rudder?

Thanks for any wisdom you can offer!

3 - clamps the rudder head fitting onto the rudder post to get rid of slop between those two. There's a slot cut into it so when you tighten that bolt it bends the rudder head into a smaller diameter. If it is too loose you can try some shims around the rudder post.

1- is the bolt that keeps the rudder from falling out. (Actually rudders float unless the foam is waterlogged.)

2 - As in 1 this is the bolt that is a positive connection to keep from losing the rudder. It probably shouldn't be a major part to keep slop out, that's 3's job.

Yes the tiller head should wrap around the rudder head normally.
https://edsonmarine.com/bronze-tille...1-rudder-post/

My rudder head bolt hole was elongated. I drilled it out round and put a brass ( you could use aluminum) tube in to bring the id down to the bolt size.

You have to look and make sure there is enough meat to oversize the hole.

You can also put shims in where the tiller head drops over the rudder head when you get it on the right way if need be.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bruce.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Bruce949

Hi,

I’m a novice sailor with only a little fundamental knowledge on sailing, so please forgive me if I use improper terms or names.

I recently purchased a Pearson 30 and I’ve found there’s some troubling play or slop in the tiller/rudder, which has made it tiring to keep her on a straight course in some conditions. I’ve done a good deal of research on my own to try to find the cause and solution but I think I’ve gone as far as I can without asking for advice–which leads me here.

What I’ve determined so far is that the play isn’t derived from the rudder bushings (so I don’t believe I need to haul her out and drop the rudder) and I believe it’s from the tiller or rudder head and bracket assembly. When I’ve taken a good look while she’s in her slip I find that I can move the tiller handle slightly left and right without the rudder post moving at all, which is why I think the issue is in the tiller/rudder head and that I need to replace, or reinforce somehow, the assembly. But I don’t know enough about this to even begin the process without asking some questions first and I’d appreciate any advice or direction I can get!

(Image should be attached)

First, it looks to me like the tiller head (or is it the rudder head?) was put on backwards...shouldn’t the bracket connect on the stern side, to give it more leverage over the assembly?


Thanks for any wisdom you can offer!

Some boats the rudder can spin 360 degrees. Just to double check since it's hard to keep the rudder straight, you do have the rudder the right way forward?

[tkeithlu]

I'd say drill out and line that #1 bolt hole, as cal40John suggests, but the head has an obvious crack. It's time to stop and do a complete repair or replacement, before you sail again, because the head could give way and leave you with no steering.

The hole being egged and cracked looks like a product of the head being on backwards - that multiplied the bending force on the aluminum casting.

You may be able to save it, or you may not. Remove the head and take it to a tig welder for aluminum. See if he/she can repair the crack(s). Then drill the head and the rudder shaft one bolt diameter larger than the present bolt. Clean the inside, reverse the head, and tighten the new bolt to standard torque with proper washers and perhaps a locking nut. Then tighten the clamp at #3.

The bolt attaching the tiller is undoubtedly also egged. Drill it, and if there is space between the tiller and the head slip in a washer. Tighten the tiller bolt until you can just lift the tiller to move around the cockpit. Again, washers on both ends and a locking nut.

You should never feel the wobble in this train of parts. Wobble means that it is egging.

Given the complexity of the repair and the fact of having sacrificed some strength in drilling out the various holes, replacing the head would be convenient if you can find one. Even then, you need to make the hole in the rudder shaft fit the bolt going through it.

[Cadence]

It would appear you need a new tiller head or a good machinist. I wouldn't be sure 1 wasn't added because the pinch on the shaft caused by tightening 3 had wallowed out or the head had a fracture.
And 2 is were it has wallowed out the hole for 1.
I would guess someone had added 1 as a jury rig.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Cadence

It would appear you need a new tiller head or a good machinist. I wouldn't be sure 1 wasn't added because the pinch on the shaft caused by tightening 3 had wallowed out or the head had a fracture.
And 2 is were it has wallowed out the hole for 1.
I would guess someone had added 1 as a jury rig.

All rudder heads I've seen has the #1 bolt. It goes through a hole in the rudder post. If the clamping bolt #3 comes loose there is nothing to keep the rudder head from sliding off the top of the rudder post.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by cal40john

All rudder heads I've seen has the #1 bolt. It goes through a hole in the rudder post. If the clamping bolt #3 comes loose there is nothing to keep the rudder head from sliding off the top of the rudder post.

Looking at the pic. I would guess the tiller should have downward pressure keeping it from hopping off. I had a similar situation years age and adding #1 was my first thought not a good solution.
If there were anything going through that pinch collar I would guess a set screw mating with a dimple in the shaft..

[stormalong]

As a former owner of a Pearson Renegade (27 ft) from the same era I will tell you that that the rudder won't float. It is surprisingly heavy. It you intend to work on it in the water pass straps under the rudder and secure them well before removing any bolts. With enough tension on the rudder it should move up a little and remove all load on the post head.

[SolarPro78]

Hi Bruce Welcome,
If you decide you need a new tiller head they are available, but costly, at D & R Marine.
DR Marine Product List

My problem is that the bolt that attaches the tiller strap to the tiller head is worn and the hole is elongated because the bolt threads are in contact with the aluminum strap, The bolt shaft is too short, stainless steel threads cut at the aluminum and the hole gets elongated. I may need one of these some day. I'm starting spring clean up this afternoon.
Good Luck.

[Bruce949]

Thanks everyone for your input, it's really appreciated. The short story is cal40john is right, the tiller was spun a whole 180 degrees and the rudder was facing backwards on my last sail.

Coming down the channel the weekend before I must've caught some seaweed and the tiller picked me up and tossed me across the cockpit when I didn't have a good grip. In the couple seconds before I could get it back under my control it must've spun around–and being slightly stunned I didn't notice and I didn't have enough experience under my belt to notice the tiller handle was now upside down and behaving oddly.

So now it's facing the proper direction, but I'm pretty sure the strain on that bolt holding the tiller bracket without the leverage of the head assembly has caused it to loosen up some, and I'll need to tighten it up somehow.

Thanks again!

Bruce

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Bruce949

Thanks everyone for your input, it's really appreciated. The short story is cal40john is right, the tiller was spun a whole 180 degrees and the rudder was facing backwards on my last sail.

Coming down the channel the weekend before I must've caught some seaweed and the tiller picked me up and tossed me across the cockpit when I didn't have a good grip. In the couple seconds before I could get it back under my control it must've spun around–and being slightly stunned I didn't notice and I didn't have enough experience under my belt to notice the tiller handle was now upside down and behaving oddly.

So now it's facing the proper direction, but I'm pretty sure the strain on that bolt holding the tiller bracket without the leverage of the head assembly has caused it to loosen up some, and I'll need to tighten it up somehow.

Thanks again!

Bruce

Steering must have been a bitch.