Overhaul & refit of a Falmouth Gypsy 24 (1973)

[mike_sco]

Hello guys, I got a Falmouth Gypsy from 1973. I got it as a project and I got it for free. The hull and the three keels look watertight, can't say if there is osmosis since the boat was hardstanding for more than two years.The deck is mostly rotten as is the interior and upholstery.

The engine needs an overhaul or being replaced but I would prefer to overhaul it. The gimbal of the cooker is rusted and swings not properly. The toilet needs to be cleaned but works. The tanks will have to been cleaned and the cabin has to be rebuild.

As you can see there is a lot to do, will take some time and I will document every step on here and on my own little wordpress page. I don't know yet about the costs, it won't be cheap for sure but I think it is worth it.


The Gypsy came with mast, sails (still stored in the previous owners garage and not yet unfolded - might be rotten as well). The 10bhp Saab engine runs but has clingy sounds, the alternator works. The VHF radio works and the Navman Tracker 900 works as well. The car audio radio doesn't work (cables missing). The gimbaled 2-flame gas cooker is rusty but works. The sink and drain works but the tab doesn't bring in water. The electrical wiring needs to be reworked. Also the foldable table and the door to the toilet is missing as are the foam pieces that worked as seats and berth matrasses.


I hope to get some ideas and hints here and hope some of you guys find it interesting that someone tries to revive on of the old boats.


Michael

[Tetepare]

I don't see any photos.

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I don't see any photos.

Wondering about that, I can see all three photos, even when I log off and lookat it as guest. Maybe reload the page?


Michael

[tkeithlu]

At least it's not big! It sounds like a doable job.

Right choice on the engine. Substituting a different engine is a known nightmare.

The Navman 900 is a pretty basic GPS/plotter, but will do for a start. Is the VHF DSC capable? If not, I recommend that you replace it with a very basic new radio -about USD 100; they all have the bells and whistles. You didn't mention a depth sounder - I would consider it part of a basic set.

Do post your progress.

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

At least it's not big! It sounds like a doable job.

Right choice on the engine. Substituting a different engine is a known nightmare.

The Navman 900 is a pretty basic GPS/plotter, but will do for a start. Is the VHF DSC capable? If not, I recommend that you replace it with a very basic new radio -about USD 100; they all have the bells and whistles. You didn't mention a depth sounder - I would consider it part of a basic set.

Do post your progress.

Thanks, was thinking about replacing the engine or even switch to electric but it's not worth the money. Right now the boat shall be get back into the water to watch dolphins, seals and basking sharks. Not sure if I would go out far enough with the small one for orcas. So yes, will overhaul the engine.


The Navman is a basic one, I will also use my iPad Pro with Navionics, maybe even get rid of the Navman. I'm more the old stylish guy and still use paper charts as well. The radio I dodn't check yet, it turns on and looks like it is working but will check for sure. Maybe replace it. I don't have a deep sounder yet, the boat didn't came with one, was considering to get a fish finder (Garmin Striker Vivid 5cv with GT20 Transducer) instead. Gives me also the depth and should help me to find the dolphins, seals or sharks. Wouldn't really use it for fishing, more to find the objects of interest to take pictures.

Will keep you guys updated for sure. Will also post it on my Wordpress page.



Michael

[Bill Youmans]

Looks like you are already deep in to it. Unless $1.00 an Hour payback is ok I would run while you can.

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by Bill Youmans

Looks like you are already deep in to it. Unless $1.00 an Hour payback is ok I would run while you can.

Why would you run? I need and love projects like that, restaurated and overhauled a Morris Minor 6cwt (1961), rusted to bits and the engine didn't work at all. Took me almost 2 years, lots of sweat and quiet some money. Fixed it and drove it for a year, then i sold it, just for £400 more than it has cost me to do it. I didn't care, but to see it back on the road was just amazing.


With the Gypsy it is the same, so many ideas what to fix and change, to bring her back into the sea, watching dolphins with her is just what keeps me going. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty clear about it that this is a money pit. It will cost me more than the boat ever will be worth but I think she deserves a further life.


Michael

[MarkSF]

The reason for running is that you'd be better off spending some money to get a boat that's been much better looked after. Any boat is a project to some extent, so it's always best to start with one in the best condition that you can afford.

The fact that it has plywood decks, and that they are rotten, would have me running for the hills. It sounds like there isn't a single system on the boat that works or is in decent shape.

Make an estimate of the restoration costs, and then double or triple it.

Guess it depends what you want. Is the intention to go sailing some day? Or do you just want a very difficult project? Nothing wrong with the latter, just know that it makes no sense whatsoever, financially - it doesn't even make sense in the realm of boat restoration - as there are much better projects out there.

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

The reason for running is that you'd be better off spending some money to get a boat that's been much better looked after. Any boat is a project to some extent, so it's always best to start with one in the best condition that you can afford.

I will spend money on any boat since I can't afford a new one right now. I'm just getting back into sailing after a long time and I love projects that others declare dead.

Originally Posted by MarkSF

The fact that it has plywood decks, and that they are rotten, would have me running for the hills. It sounds like there isn't a single system on the boat that works or is in decent shape.

I don't like giving up just things don't go the way I want them to go. I keep my old Volvo running and spent more than the car is worth over the last three years. I love the car and for me it's worth spending the money. The same with the Gypsy, I fell in love with the boat and I got it for free. I have seen Gypsies for £2,500 or more in a not much better condition, lots of the ones I found were blenders.


Michael

[mike_sco]

Would anybody of you guys use Amacell for insulation on a boat? I was thinking to use "ArmaSound RD240"for the engine compartment and "Arma-Check R" for the walls to insulate it and make it look nicer.
I would maybe even put some light grey felt on top of it, like I did with the camper van.
The Arma-Check R is resistant to UV, salt water and chemicals, also does it come with a built-in water vapour barrier.


Michael

[keithw88]

I think it’s great you want to resurrect this boat. The class has elements of being a classic and many people have very fond memories of such boats.
I write as someone who has several times spent far more on a boat than it’s worth, so please excuse my cautions!
1. .Are you sure the hull is fibreglass and not wood (some were!)?
2. Have you got a good idea as to why there is something that looks like angle-metal over each edge of the transom?
3. Keel attachments and through-hulls deteriorate and are absolutely critical to staying afloat. I have seen several (and owned two) boats where the apparently solid metal was in fact so deteriorated the boat could have sunk at any time. Ditto the hoses and clips attached to through-hulls.
4. I had one boat with glass hull and decks where the chainplates were bolted onto the plywood bulkheads which were totally rotten: and the stainless steel bolts had wasted away to almost nothing (crevice corrosion).
5. Aluminium and stainless steel fizz in the presence of ((especially) seawater; are the spars solid or compromised?
6. Rudder fittings but especially the rudder itself are easily ignored, but all too often are weak or rotten.
My thoughts are that items like these are much more significant than the state of the engine or the electronics.
Do you feel confident that your new boat is free of the dreadful things I am listing? If so, enjoy the work and keep us posted about your progress! She should be a fine ship in due course!

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by keithw88

I think it’s great you want to resurrect this boat. The class has elements of being a classic and many people have very fond memories of such boats.

Thank you for that, the most people here try to talk me out of it. I think it is already a classic and almost the same age like me, the boat is just 5 years younger than me.

Originally Posted by keithw88

1. .Are you sure the hull is fibreglass and not wood (some were!)?

I have the documentation and paperwork of the boat, also the year of manufacturing. So if I go by the building history of the manufactuer all boats after 1969 should be fibreglass. But also by feeling inside and outside the hull it looks more like fibreglass, except the manufacturer would have put a layer of fibreglass on the inside and outside (which is most unlikely in this price class of boats).

Originally Posted by keithw88

2. Have you got a good idea as to why there is something that looks like angle-metal over each edge of the transom?

Sadly I have to admit that I have no idea why or for what reason these metal corner are applied to the transom. My guess is to make it more stable as they had an outboarder installed additional to the inboarder. I can't see (fatigue) cracks or damages in the corners of the transom or hull.

Originally Posted by keithw88

3. Keel attachments and through-hulls deteriorate and are absolutely critical to staying afloat. I have seen several (and owned two) boats where the apparently solid metal was in fact so deteriorated the boat could have sunk at any time. Ditto the hoses and clips attached to through-hulls.

The keel is screwed on and laminated over, I can't see any issues with that yet, but I have to wait till the interior (flooring) is completely emptied to get a closer look at it. The inlets for collant water for the engine looks fine but I got already the seals new and I will replace all hoses since the most ones are working but the flexibility is gone taken the age in consideration.

Originally Posted by keithw88

4. I had one boat with glass hull and decks where the chainplates were bolted onto the plywood bulkheads which were totally rotten: and the stainless steel bolts had wasted away to almost nothing (crevice corrosion).

The bulkheads look fine and are not rotten yet, gladly the deck is just fibreglass and plywood so not too heavy. The connections between hull and deck look fine, just the rails and the cockpit part seems rotten, a closer look will be done after my induction week (start a new job tomorrow).

Originally Posted by keithw88

5. Aluminium and stainless steel fizz in the presence of ((especially) seawater; are the spars solid or compromised?

There is not really aluminium or steel on the boat, at least I didn't see any yet. The spars look good to me and feel pretty solid. But like before, the closer look can be done when the boat is emptied of some rubbish and the interior taken apart. The engine mount looks also good to me but I have to check that closer.

Originally Posted by keithw88

6. Rudder fittings but especially the rudder itself are easily ignored, but all too often are weak or rotten.

Like I mentioned already, the rudder looks repaired already but not really well. I have a really good board of oak to reproduce a new rudder (in one piece) and then I will treat it with either fibreglass or good saltwater resistant paint. At least that was my idea.

Originally Posted by keithw88

My thoughts are that items like these are much more significant than the state of the engine or the electronics.
Do you feel confident that your new boat is free of the dreadful things I am listing? If so, enjoy the work and keep us posted about your progress! She should be a fine ship in due course!

I agree with you that those things are more important than electrics or engine since this are structural critical points.
If I feel confident enough that the boat is free of those? I don't know completely yet but will find out over the next three weeks and yes, I will keep you guys posted.

If I feel confident enough to do the restauration? Yes, I had a couple of projects like that, even more worse ones and I managed. Gladly I don't have a timewise pressure on me except my own schedule when i want to watch dolphins in the water...


Michael

[Spot]

Hello Michael,
I am about halfway through a refit of a 1970's kit sailboat.
There is a thread about it here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3182241

I sort of fell for the boat before I knew of all of its issues and it's taken longer than expected to finish.

The skills that I think have helped me the most are basic wood working and fiber glassing and pattern making against curved and angled surfaces. I have also been learning about the specific nuances of boat wiring: tinned wire, solar, where to put fuses, and better crimps and crimpers than often employed by DIY folks at home.

Are you going to keep the extra coach roof? Have you concluded if yours is a MK I, II, or III ? It would be good to understand what is critical structurally on your boat before taking too much apart such as bulkheads and compression post if so equipped.

If you can find websites and other people with the boats or who remember them from before it is always fun visiting with them although some of the stories are getting 'long in the tooth'...

All the best on your new project.

[siamese]

So, the decks are rotten, the engine is shot, and the gimbaled 2 flame cooker is rusted.

I was all excited about this project until you mentioned that rusty cooker. That's a deal breaker. Oops...sarcasm alert

No aluminum on the boat? The mast and boom are made of what...pretzels?

Alright, I'll wish you luck and best wishes on your project. Sure can't comprehend it, though. Most of the people on this forum like to sail, and work on their boats as needed to maintain their desired level of safety and appearance.

[mike_sco]

First of all, sorry for the late respond, I just changed jobs, means I started a new job on Monday and had to go through some training the last week over. Also will go through some training over the enxt 14 weeks, but managable.
I will keep an eye on the thread and try to answer as soon as possbile.

Originally Posted by Spot

Hello Michael,
I am about halfway through a refit of a 1970's kit sailboat.
There is a thread about it here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3182241

I know about this thread by @LittleWing77, she posted this already in another thread I opened. Nice job done so far and I would like to keep in touch to get some tipps and tricks lol

Originally Posted by Spot

I sort of fell for the boat before I knew of all of its issues and it's taken longer than expected to finish.

Sadly it was with me the same. I saw this boat a few times in the harbour (hardstanding) and then one day I found this offer on the marketplace in Facebook. I thought I want this boat, cute, small - the right size to get along the coast in our heavy weather sometimes and to get back into sailing, so I called him. After one visit myself I told him that I wouldn't pay the called £1,200, because it needs a lot more work than expected. He agreed and tol me I can have it for free as long as I get it off the slipway within the next three weeks. Since I had access to a hiab for somewhat free I accepted, sadly wihtout checking the boat any further, especially not from inside.
Everyone might think I'm stupid, but I like projects, makes me always feel great when successful, and it's the way to go if you can't afford tons of money in one run.

Originally Posted by Spot

The skills that I think have helped me the most are basic wood working and fiber glassing and pattern making against curved and angled surfaces. I have also been learning about the specific nuances of boat wiring: tinned wire, solar, where to put fuses, and better crimps and crimpers than often employed by DIY folks at home.

I'm a car & HGV mechanic and electician by trade, also built two camper vans already, refitted a motoryacht with a friend roundabout 18 yrs ago and built three houses. I'm a jack of all trades somehow so i hope it will come in handy. Also have a lot of tools (some specific ones I might need but they also come in handy for other projects).

Originally Posted by Spot

Are you going to keep the extra coach roof? Have you concluded if yours is a MK I, II, or III ? It would be good to understand what is critical structurally on your boat before taking too much apart such as bulkheads and compression post if so equipped.

I would like to, but I'm even thinking of shaping it new, more like a flatted newer looking sailing yacht, meaning to extend the extra coachroof till the front, but have to gather some ideas first. The bulkheads are in a good shape and condition and still in the boat, I will keep them and won't touch them at all.

Originally Posted by Spot

If you can find websites and other people with the boats or who remember them from before it is always fun visiting with them although some of the stories are getting 'long in the tooth'...

Sadly I could only find two, not very helpful at all, lots of links run into darkness and don't work anymore. Also not much at all to find about the old Gypsys... sadly, I like them, cute little boats...



Michael