Overhaul & refit of a Falmouth Gypsy 24 (1973)

[TrentePieds]

Mike Sco:

I salute you! If you get pleasure out of making old things new again, you can turn this boat into a real little jewel. Maybe I'll move to Elgin or thereabouts just to watch you do it :-)!

I have no idea what materials availability is in your neckathewoods these days, but you don't need anything exotic to make her good again.

Given that she is a hard-chined boat, and was meant to be within financial reach of the "common man" all those years ago, she was very likely DESIGNED for wooden construction, either plank of plywood, although I don't know that. She may well have been BUILT in GRP, even if she was designed for wood! Here In British Columbia and also in the State of Washington, there were many, many plywood built boats, the Thunderbird class, back when your Falmouth was young. After some years of their being homebuilt from scratch in plywood [I still have the plans :-)] someone started turning out bare GRP hulls for owners to fit out. I still see one or two T'birds in active use as cruisers, although the intent of the T'bird class was that they should be "one class" racers, a sort of overgrown Enterprise dinghies :-)

I'm sure you know as well as I do how to determine which material it is :-)!

Do keep us posted on how you get along.

All the best :-)!

TrentePieds

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Mike Sco:

I salute you! If you get pleasure out of making old things new again, you can turn this boat into a real little jewel. Maybe I'll move to Elgin or thereabouts just to watch you do it :-)!

Thank you for that and moving here would be amazing a helping hand is always welcome hehe...

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

I have no idea what materials availability is in your neckathewoods these days, but you don't need anything exotic to make her good again.

Somehow, with some good connections everything would be available. I will try marine plywood and maybe some planks from older barrels (since we have round about 60 distilleries with cooperages around here). I might even use GRP over the plywood to keep it more protected.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Given that she is a hard-chined boat, and was meant to be within financial reach of the "common man" all those years ago, she was very likely DESIGNED for wooden construction, either plank of plywood, although I don't know that. She may well have been BUILT in GRP, even if she was designed for wood! Here In British Columbia and also in the State of Washington, there were many, many plywood built boats, the Thunderbird class, back when your Falmouth was young. After some years of their being homebuilt from scratch in plywood [I still have the plans :-)] someone started turning out bare GRP hulls for owners to fit out. I still see one or two T'birds in active use as cruisers, although the intent of the T'bird class was that they should be "one class" racers, a sort of overgrown Enterprise dinghies :-)

Same here, she is a Mk II model, which means the hull is fibreglass but the deck is made of plywood / wood mostly covered with fibreglass (the first ones have a bare plywood deck - like mine).
Would be interesting to see the plans of the Thunderbird class, sounds a wee bit like a comparable or even equal class to the Falmouth Gypsy and the history of evolution sounds also very equal.


Michael

[mike_sco]

Hello TrentePieds, did you ever check out the Thunderbid 32 Pacific? I checked the Thunderbird class but can't really find much about it. Would be cool to have a look at it, I know that the first was designed in 1958 by Ben Seaborn. But that is almost everything I know about it. So the Thunderbird class is 10 years older than the Falmouth Gypsys...


Michael

[mike_sco]

Ok folks, I have done some clean out, means I got rid of the rubbish dumped in and on the boat. Cleared out the unwanted stuff (like some old kitchen utensils) and old fabrics.

The woodwork and furniture inside doesn’t look too bad, the bulkheads are in a good condition but I still will check the connections. The little wiring looks ok so far but would you guys exchange it and rewire it just as a precaution?
The cooker looks now better than I thought, just needs a proper clean but I will exchange the gas pipes / hoses as a precaution.

Any tips how to start with the furniture? I would like to rebuild it a bit so it fits my needs and wishes or should I keep the structure and din abgesehen the layout?

Michael

[TrentePieds]

Hello again, Michael :-)

"Abgesehen"??? Sprichst du deutsch?

I'm sorry I missed yours of 09 Jan. No, my workshop/storage was flooded in the recent deluge, so everything is upside down and I haven't had time to look for the T'bird plans. You may already have found this:

History – International Thunderbird Class Association

One of the things you will have to guard against when seeking advice here is that very, very few of the respondents will have actual experience with boats like yours or the T'bird, and what people learn on bigger, modern boats often has no use or relevance in our class of boat. What is considered basic requirements these days was considered unheard of luxury when I first went asailing. If indeed it even existed :-)!

I think you need to be careful about changing the basic layout. The rigging, in a decent blow, imparts quite substantial stresses to the hull, which, you've said, is made of what we so very delicately call "frozen snot" in this 'ere part of the Empire :-)! These stresses are vectored into the GRP hull via certain parts of the furniture, so certain components of it need to be exactly where they are. In so small a boat that imposes serious limitations on how "creative" you can be with the arrangement and still have a sound structure.

If you have a means of scanning it in and posting it, why don't you do a quick and dirty sketch of the existing arrangements and one of the layout you'd like to have. Then we'll have a basis for a sensible discussion of what can be done, and what might prove to be problematical.

Do you have a workshop available?

TrentePieds

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hello again, Michael :-)

"Abgesehen"??? Sprichst du deutsch?

I live in Scotland for more than five years but yes, originally I’m from Germany with British roots (my grandma as from London) so yes, ich spreche deutsch.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

I'm sorry I missed yours of 09 Jan. No, my workshop/storage was flooded in the recent deluge, so everything is upside down and I haven't had time to look for the T'bird plans. You may already have found this:

History – International Thunderbird Class Association

It’s ok, we all have still a RL, I know this best since I’m doing a training abroad right now (started a new job this year). I found something but nothing that revealed plans or drawings. Will check this one out.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

One of the things you will have to guard against when seeking advice here is that very, very few of the respondents will have actual experience with boats like yours or the T'bird, and what people learn on bigger, modern boats often has no use or relevance in our class of boat. What is considered basic requirements these days was considered unheard of luxury when I first went asailing. If indeed it even existed :-)!

I noticed that already, also you have some guys on here that actually think they are funny and do the clown. It’s fine, you need guys like that. If I talk about the inside and that there is no metal /aluminium and get an answer like “what about the mast”, sorry can’t take replies like that for serious. And yes, that most think I’m even stupid to do such a big job with such an old boat and that’s it’s not worth it, I don’t care, I love the challenge and I love old stuff and seeing it back in service. Same thing with my cameras, my oldest is from 1897 and still works after a massive overhaul.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

I think you need to be careful about changing the basic layout. The rigging, in a decent blow, imparts quite substantial stresses to the hull, which, you've said, is made of what we so very delicately call "frozen snot" in this 'ere part of the Empire :-)! These stresses are vectored into the GRP hull via certain parts of the furniture, so certain components of it need to be exactly where they are. In so small a boat that imposes serious limitations on how "creative" you can be with the arrangement and still have a sound structure.

I will keep an eye on that and check it again. I thought so and I really hope that I can change some of it.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

If you have a means of scanning it in and posting it, why don't you do a quick and dirty sketch of the existing arrangements and one of the layout you'd like to have. Then we'll have a basis for a sensible discussion of what can be done, and what might prove to be problematical.

Will do that when back at home over the weekend. Maybe if I can manage here in England I will do so and upload it here.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

Do you have a workshop available?

Sadly not, the boat is hardstanding in a friends yard right now and that’s where I have to do the overhaul atm. I’m looking for a shed or barn where I van out her in, but that’s not that easy atm because of training and absence in Scotland.

Michael

[TrentePieds]

Thanx, Michael :-)

Please check your Private Messages!

TP

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Thanx, Michael :-)

Please check your Private Messages!

TP

Thank you TrentePieds, checked my inbox and replied.

Michael

[Spot]

Originally Posted by mike_sco

Ok folks, I have done some clean out, means I got rid of the rubbish dumped in and on the boat. Cleared out the unwanted stuff (like some old kitchen utensils) and old fabrics.

The woodwork and furniture inside doesn’t look too bad, the bulkheads are in a good condition but I still will check the connections. The little wiring looks ok so far but would you guys exchange it and rewire it just as a precaution?
The cooker looks now better than I thought, just needs a proper clean but I will exchange the gas pipes / hoses as a precaution.

Any tips how to start with the furniture? I would like to rebuild it a bit so it fits my needs and wishes or should I keep the structure and din abgesehen the layout?

Michael

Koennen doch jedere nicht Deutsch?
Can't everyone speak German?


My electrical was so bad, solid core 'doorbell' wire wrapped around solder terminals with no solder, etc. that I had to replace it. I know everything is fused and switched so as to be safe and the main box and battery is no longer next to the outboard fuel tank through the rear hatch. I also have a small battery and 50w solar since boat has no alternator or generator to make its own electricity. I used stranded copper wire with good insulation, from my container of extra parts, to make the unsafe to safer improvements...but still want to make the final upgrade to marine tinned wire and heat-sealed crimped connections.

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by Spot

My electrical was so bad, solid core 'doorbell' wire wrapped around solder terminals with no solder, etc. that I had to replace it. I know everything is fused and switched so as to be safe and the main box and battery is no longer next to the outboard fuel tank through the rear hatch. I also have a small battery and 50w solar since boat has no alternator or generator to make its own electricity. I used stranded copper wire with good insulation, from my container of extra parts, to make the unsafe to safer improvements...but still want to make the final upgrade to marine tinned wire and heat-sealed crimped connections.

Thank you for this nice input. I was thinking he same, especially electric can become dangerous (fire) on a boat. The wiring looks somehow ok but I don’t know how the copper inside looks like and some connectors look dodgy. Also I found already that some lines are missing fuses. So I might just change them completely and do it the way I wish. I prefer for example a switch board where I can find all fuses and switches and not what I have I now, switches everywhere and some fuses just flying in the wires…

Michael

[TrentePieds]

Yes, you are quite right about that, Michael. In so small a boat it is a quick and easy job and well worth doing.

Have you done a "power budget"? I think that is quite essential, particularly because you will need to be sure that your charging capacity will more than meet you anticipated consumption of power, and I believe your boat has - or had, maybe - a one-lung SABB engine. I don't remember if those things even had an alternator.

Your mast sits in a tabernacle, does it not? If it does, there'd probably be merit in fitting waterproof "quick plug" at deck level for the wiring for your steaming and anchor lights.

TP

[mike_sco]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Yes, you are quite right about that, Michael. In so small a boat it is a quick and easy job and well worth doing.

Thank you, I think it’s definitely worth and not a fortune of money.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

Have you done a "power budget"? I think that is quite essential, particularly because you will need to be sure that your charging capacity will more than meet you anticipated consumption of power, and I believe your boat has - or had, maybe - a one-lung SABB engine. I don't remember if those things even had an alternator.

I have done a rough power budget, I will install a battery bank (both batteries don’t look good) and later a solar panel as well. I don’t need much power, 4 lamps (each 4W LED), the anchor lights (also LED). Two charging points for an iPad and maybe an additional iPhone, VHF radio. The compass is mechanical and for the chart plotting I use my iPad with the Navionics Software. The most expensive part will Charger System when installing the solar panel. Gladly the engine has an alternator and it even works. Might think about a second one or a bigger one. The problem with the bigger one is I’m not sure if the engine will be powerful enough for a bigger one.

Originally Posted by trentepieds

Your mast sits in a tabernacle, does it not? If it does, there'd probably be merit in fitting waterproof "quick plug" at deck level for the wiring for your steaming and anchor lights.

It does and yes there are two “waterproof” quick connectors but I will exchange them with new waterproof connectors (had already a set of 4 pair).

Michael

[mike_sco]

Anybody elase having issues with the weather atm? We have 2° C / 35.6° F at the moment and snow, so not the weather to work outside. Also we have an average of 26 mph wind outside so a place where I don't feel comfortable to work lol...

However, I hope the weather improves somehow soon, which the forecast doesn't agree with yet but there comes a time it will improve though...
Anyway, I will try to do some work next weekend, without snow and rain (hopefully) and increased temperatures of round about 8° C / 46.4° F which allows me at least to do some stuff.
Enjoy your weekend folks.


Michael

[Spot]

Hi Michael,
Weather has been an issue here too. Lots of cold and a fair amount of snow. I did not tarp the boat this year so I have snow in the cockpit and have not been in the cabin for a couple months. I can peek in the portlights but that is about it.

[JulesMoore]

Hi, wondering if you have a link to your Wordpress account; would love to see how you are getting on. We have restored a Falmouth Gypsy Mk2 over Lockdown and are still working on her. Sail number is 142, what is yours?