New vs Old

[zeehag]

people bring their boats HERE to avoid hurrycames. is a safe place, as the named storms seem to avoid this place pretty much and no major damage in 33 yrs.
they also sail their dock queens to marian mazatlan and sit out the rest of their lives. is a lil bit of a difference between a dock queen boat and a cruising boat. cruising boats actually leave.
oh, and i actually LIVED in san diego--is where my other boat lives. seen a lot of catabenehuntelinas on docks tied tight. saw some actually day sail. they arent out here cruising. not in gulf of mexico nor in eastern pacific.
i know there are some in caribean, but most people out cruising are not cruising them.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by zeehag

is truly hilarious to hear someone cry from sacto delta about what is truly "out here" when i SEE quite different than what is stated from the office of a canvas shop in sacto delta. do i have to take and post pix for you??? mebbe in sacto delta and other bays ther e are many of these catabenehuntalinas, but in reality, go see for yourself how far wrong you are., look at the entry list to baja haha... touch reality,. randy, you are not correct.
there are no more than 10 catabenehuntalinas in mazatlan in the 3 marinas in my vicinity. the rest are island packet, pacific seacraft, 10-15 taiwanese boats, wauquiez, 6 ferro cements, 6 wetsnails,some older -- mid 1970s european made boats, 5 old woodies in beautiful shape, 4 fujis, 10 cheoy lees, and other non catabenehuintalinas. oh yes and 2 1970s islander 30s. so to say MOST OF THE BOATS OUT here CRUISING THE WORLD ARE same, is a boldfaced made by a desk jock. the boats make great dock queens. when i was sailing gulf for a year, many hunters were coastal cruising, but not as many were sailing as at docks rotting. the seidelmanns, westsails, islanders some racing boats, and some taiwanese--ct and vagabond and hans christians....

just because you make their canvas does NOT mean they ever leave the dock-- they AINT out here, mon.

There you go again making personal remarks about me.. truth is, the canvas shop it a hobby shop, for my self and the wife.. we re-tired at age 45 after selling my machine shop and made enough that we will live good for the rest of our lives..
My life revolves around the boating community and I do a dozzen or so deliverys each year,, just took a 60 foot Hyles power boat to Golfino to be picked up by dockwise..
And did the checking of the enterants of the Ha Ha.. Tayana has the leadwith 7 followed by Catalina with 6 boats.. But the tayana is a medium weight fin keel or cutaway keel and have been that way on certain models from the mid 80s..
as far as the puddle jump.. Two Beneteaus and a jeanneau (from Beneteau).. and in ALL the count, both haha and puddle jump, Not a ******* in the bunch..
A good look at the new boats that would be concidered Heavy weights like the Hans Christain have all gone to modern building features and as the Hans, have gone to a cut-away keel and other ways of cutting weight..
Closest I could find to a Tayana in my length was a 37 and he weighs in a couple thousand less that my Beneteau..
Dont know why there are so many heavy weights setting at anchor in Mexico, maybe thats where they go to die?

[hummingway]

There is nothing to be gained on a sailing and cruising forum by insulting others choice in boat. EVERYBODY please refrain from doing so in the future or this thread will be closed.

[GeoPowers]

Originally Posted by wunderluster

What are we going to do in 30 years when all the "new' boats are then the "old" boats. Oh, the future looks sad indeed

I love looking at older boats, and definitely oogle a newly-restored or well-maintained "classic" boat (ketches especially) more than the Beneteau's latest models for any given year. But with two young kids, it is really helpful for whoever is on deck to be able to do anything needed solo on our boat. I personally don't think I could singlehand most of those oldies I like. Then there's the old systems and questionable maintenance histories by PO's unless you've just completed a lengthy and/or costly retrofit....and with full time jobs there and two little kids we'd never be able to work on it enough to get it onto the water!

I'm hoping that one day Beneteau or Catalina do a "retro series" and somehow combine classic looks with some modern design and performance elements in an affordable package. That would be really cool!

Frank

[Matt sachs]

Before we get shut down, I have a question. The only thing 1989 about the boat I'm working on are the hull plates. Everything - I mean everything - else is brand new. The deck, wheel house, engine, even the shaft log. So what year is she? Even though 99% of her is 2010-11 do I call her a refit 1989?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Even though 99% of her is 2010-11 do I call her a refit 1989?

Yes..

[zeehag]

por lo puesto, randy, not making PERSONAL remarks about ANYONE who actually leaves a dock to remark about what is out there cruising.

[Matt sachs]

Well thats ok, My truck is an 83 refit chevy one ton pickup. I guess I like'um old

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by zeehag

is truly hilarious to hear someone cry from sacto delta about what is truly "out here" when i SEE quite different than what is stated from the office of a canvas shop in sacto delta. do i have to take and post pix for you??? mebbe in sacto delta and other bays ther e are many of these catabenehuntalinas, but in reality, go see for yourself how far wrong you are., look at the entry list to baja haha... touch reality,. randy, you are not correct.
there are no more than 10 catabenehuntalinas in mazatlan in the 3 marinas in my vicinity. the rest are island packet, pacific seacraft, 10-15 taiwanese boats, wauquiez, 6 ferro cements, 6 wetsnails,some older -- mid 1970s european made boats, 5 old woodies in beautiful shape, 4 fujis, 10 cheoy lees, and other non catabenehuintalinas. oh yes and 2 1970s islander 30s. so to say MOST OF THE BOATS OUT here CRUISING THE WORLD ARE same, is a boldfaced made by a desk jock. the boats make great dock queens. when i was sailing gulf for a year, many hunters were coastal cruising, but not as many were sailing as at docks rotting. the seidelmanns, westsails, islanders some racing boats, and some taiwanese--ct and vagabond and hans christians....

just because you make their canvas does NOT mean they ever leave the dock-- they AINT out here, mon.

Gosh, Zee,

First, seems to me that citing inhabitants of Mazatlan Marinas as being proof of what is "out here cruising the world" is a fetcher. The voyage from the west coast of north America to Mazatlan is in fact a coastal cruise... no serious open water passages needed to get there. The Ha Ha is even less of a challenge.

Our experience over the past few years has included a few cruising nexus spots, ones that require at least some open ocean passages to reach. Included are New Caledonia, Vanuatu and the East coast of Oz from Lizard Island to Southwest Cape in Tassie. If one leaves out the local boats as non-participants, one does indeed find a wide cross section of types making the passages, and Zee, it really does include lots of the "Benevarihuntalinas" that you dislike so much. Frankly, they are not my cup of tea either, but they do indeed make adequate cruising machines and there plenty of them out there sailing. Of course there are plenty of the older designs too, and they do include various sorts of Leaky Teakies as well as woodies, steelies, and older FRP designs from domestic sources (ie, not Taiwan).

My personal guess as to why there are not even more of the latest model production boats out doing serious passages is simply that the people who buy them mostly have to stay at the job at home in order to pay for 'em.

Finally, while Randy's statement that Beneteau has produced more largish sailing boats than any other builder in recent years is (I think) true, I would agree that they do not make up a majority of cruising boats... just a substantial minority.

Cheers,

Jim

[Furface]

When i bought my 1969 Hughs 29 some one once said, these boats were really built well, a real rock ramer, i think thats a complement.

[Pyrate]

My two bits are as follows: there were many bad older boats. They just aren't around anymore in any decent shape, either by bad design or poor maintenance. the ones that are around have stood the test of time, and therefore tend to be the better built boats that have been well cared for. In 30 years, it will likely be the same for the 'new' old boats. Personally, I prefer the older ones right now because I'm a fan of their more classic lines over modern utilitarian speed demons with lots of room. I also tend to like the motion of a heavy built boat better. But, that's just my preference. Also, there seems to be two theories for weathering storms. One is that a heavier, stronger boat can take more abuse, whereas the other is that a faster boat has more chance of outrunning and avoiding the bad weather. Again, my opinion is that one day, no matter how fast you are, bad weather will catch up and I'd rather have a boat that can take a beating. And, since it is slow, there's a better chance that I will be more prepared and know what to do because of the experiences in rough weather I've had leading up to that day. Furthermore, since an old, heavy boat is what I could afford, it was a fairly easy choice for me.

Pyrate

[sarafina]

I've been thinking about this for a few days now... for me it is a choice that sort of follows my whole life creed. I value authenticity and quality, where ever i find it.

My house is over 100 years old. It's Edwardian from top to bottom and all the work we have done on her looks as if it could have been original. No Formica counters in this old girl.

My boats are old plastic classics. Before that they were old woodies. I got newer boats to get rid of the bright work, but ONLY new enough to do that. The Cal is a '67.

My clothes are mostly old, of very good quality and pretty timeless. With the exception of my boat clothes, which are ancient and pretty timeless, and also pretty disreputable. But authentic as the day is long ; -)

I have a real soft spot for old cars, but drive a newish hybrid. If I needed two cars the other one would prolly be a 66 mustang. or a 59 mercedes hardtop.

Maybe part of what drives this choice is what people LIKE... not what is *better*.

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by wunderluster

What are we going to do in 30 years when all the "new' boats are then the "old" boats. Oh, the future looks sad indeed

A very good point. In 30 years all the "old boats" will be 60 years old and the "new boats" will be 30 - 40 years old. If they were no good new, they're unlikely to have improved with age. This is how the market is going for most commodities. Cheap throw away manufacture. We don't repair, we just throw away and relpace. By then most of us "old boat" advocates will also have been replaced. So where's the problem?

Greg

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by sarafina

I've been thinking about this for a few days now... for me it is a choice that sort of follows my whole life creed. I value authenticity and quality, where ever i find it.

My house is over 100 years old. It's Edwardian from top to bottom and all the work we have done on her looks as if it could have been original. No Formica counters in this old girl.

My boats are old plastic classics. Before that they were old woodies. I got newer boats to get rid of the bright work, but ONLY new enough to do that. The Cal is a '67.

My clothes are mostly old, of very good quality and pretty timeless. With the exception of my boat clothes, which are ancient and pretty timeless, and also pretty disreputable. But authentic as the day is long ; -)

I have a real soft spot for old cars, but drive a newish hybrid. If I needed two cars the other one would prolly be a 66 mustang. or a 59 mercedes hardtop.

Maybe part of what drives this choice is what people LIKE... not what is *better*.

so.... how bout old men?

[zeehag]

some old men are fun and some are curmudgeons-- is kind of a craps shoot.....