need help building wooden ceiling for pilot house

[RGN]

I know I sound like a broken record on insulation but ... CORK!

I used 1" sheets contact cemented to the hull, the just glued a 1/4" strip of cedar to the cork for air space and then glued on the cedar ceiling. Worked a treat!


I used cork from Grainger

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by rbk

For under your floor, best would be a two part closed cell polyurethane foam to hit the hard to reach areas. Be cautious with the two part packs you buy at hardware stores as most of these use flammable blowing agents ant can settle in the bilge ie KABOOM! But if you’re careful and provide adequate ventilation you should be ok.

Do not use 2 part foam in the bilge. Regardless of what type it is it will absorb water over time and become a mess.

I wouldn't insulate the bilge at all. I would add insulation to the underside of the sole boards and as far outboard as you can access. 3/4" or 1" closed cell should work.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Do not use 2 part foam in the bilge. Regardless of what type it is it will absorb water over time and become a mess.

I wouldn't insulate the bilge at all. I would add insulation to the underside of the sole boards and as far outboard as you can access. 3/4" or 1" closed cell should work.

No it will not. I’ve read bs comments like this countless times before and a 2#ccspf does not hold water period. Open cell yes, cheap spray can foam yes and those that make this claim don’t know the difference. Only caveat is when exposed to uv the cells breakdown and surface cells are now open and can hold water. I don’t know where the OP is based but there are some very good reasons to insulated a bilge in higher latitudes.

[coopec43]

Has anyone given you a link to this


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ic-216271.html


OR THIS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUC0op9N_m8

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Drew74

Hello!

Hoping to find some reading material on the construction of wooden slats (?) for the ceiling of a pilot house. Need to add insulation as well.

Many thanks in advance!

Drew

The op wants to put slats on the ceiling. That is the hull sides of a boat, not the overhead.

[Manateeman]

After you bend and glue the athwart ribs and after you fill in the insulation and after you’ve run your overhead lights wire. Get a good router and t&g carbide bits. Nice dry wood.
Router the center line plank the same on both sides. Fit exactly on the center line. Now work from one side of the boat and then alternate to the opposit side.
We’ve done tongue and groove glued and stapled so that the finish shown no nails nor staples. You must seal the wood on both sides.
Done this in thin cedar and thicker pine.
Mark

[Scott Berg]

I'd do it a bit differently.

I'd start with 12mm closed cell foam in a dark color; I'd glue it to the sides with contact cement

then I'd take some fairly soft wood like yellow pine and rip it into 15mm or so thick by 25mm wide the vertical length of the pilot house

on one side I'd cut 5mm kerfs every 5 mm so it could easily bend to the side of the PH, and secure it through the insulation to the house. This will give me the mounting pieces.

Now mill teak, cherry, maple, etc for the ceiling; pre drill it, varnish, and then secure it to the already secured mounts with a small (3mm?) spacing. That's how most high end builders do it.

Good luck.

[Schapera]

Originally Posted by Drew74

Hello!

Hoping to find some reading material on the construction of wooden slats (?) for the ceiling of a pilot house. Need to add insulation as well.

Many thanks in advance!

Drew

In the U.K. I can buy a 8ftx4ft sheet of 1/4in marine ply that has one face that mimics tongue and groove beautifully. It’s actually called Robbins Elite Cabin Line. Wonderful product!

[skipperguy]

i suggest using custom-milled lumberyard PVC. 2, 3 or 4" wide, v-joint, tongue and groove.
inexpensive milling job. stainless nailed to appropriate wood backer with insulation above. crisp, clean and absolutely bullet proof to clean and maintain - white color will brighten the wheel house. paint if desired. be careful if trying to glue - tricky.
will post pic of cabin wall i did in this manner- sorry for poor pic

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Drew74

Hello!

Hoping to find some reading material on the construction of wooden slats (?) for the ceiling of a pilot house. Need to add insulation as well.

Many thanks in advance!

Drew

I see you are in Portland. I lived aboard in Seattle. I dont know your heating source, but heat accumulates at the top on a boat. Your feet can be cold and when you stand up your head will be hot! But I suppose insulating up there can help a bit with condensation.
Usually people put plywood strips athwartships and screw the longitudinal strips to that. Does your Tayana already have the strips running across? The strips dont necessarily have to be tongue and groove.
The process is:
-Cut plywood to maybe 3" wide. Slice slots through the 3" length every few inches to allow you to bend it to the curve of the ceiling.
-Install these on the ceiling with epoxy or a good construction adhesive or even 5200. I screw them on making sure the screw only penetrates the inner skin into the core of the deck. Make sure you have them near the end of each overhead strip you will install so the decorative strips stay put.
- Now cut and dry fit every strip that you are putting on the ceiling. temporarily installed.
-when they are all done remove and number them.
-Take them to a space where you can apply what ever finish you are putting on them. I like to put at least one coat on the back side also.
-Once the finish is hard install the strips.

These were white cedar with 5 coats of varnish:

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I see you are in Portland. I lived aboard in Seattle. I dont know your heating source, but heat accumulates at the top on a boat. Your feet can be cold and when you stand up your head will be hot! But I suppose insulating up there can help a bit with condensation.
Usually people put plywood strips athwartships and screw the longitudinal strips to that. Does your Tayana already have the strips running across? The strips dont necessarily have to be tongue and groove.
The process is:
-Cut plywood to maybe 3" wide. Slice slots through the 3" length every few inches to allow you to bend it to the curve of the ceiling.
-Install these on the ceiling with epoxy or a good construction adhesive or even 5200. I screw them on making sure the screw only penetrates the inner skin into the core of the deck. Make sure you have them near the end of each overhead strip you will install so the decorative strips stay put.
- Now cut and dry fit every strip that you are putting on the ceiling. temporarily installed.
-when they are all done remove and number them.
-Take them to a space where you can apply what ever finish you are putting on them. I like to put at least one coat on the back side also.
-Once the finish is hard install the strips.

These were white cedar with 5 coats of varnish:

That is not a ceiling on a boat. That is the overhead. The ceiling is the hull sides on a boat.

It would be nice to find out exactly what the op means.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

That is not a ceiling on a boat. That is the overhead. The ceiling is the hull sides on a boat.

It would be nice to find out exactly what the op means.

I know, I figured he might understand that better.

[Boatwright]

"tongue and groove red cedar strips with a tablesaw"....

T&G is an excellent idea. IMO, using a table saw to make your strips is a poor choice. Use a T&G router bit set instead. This will leave a tapered edge on the tongue which makes fitting easier and also prevents splitting of the thin sides of the groove when the wood swells with changes in the weather. The cut of these bits will also leave a nice chamfered edge where the boards meet.

To get a good picture of what I'm talking about, go to your local lumber store and look at the stock T&G pine boards they will have in stock. Then go to the tool dept to look at the available router bits.

If you have never used a router before, be careful! The high RPM bit is exposed and can quickly remove a finger if one is careless. Better still, try to find someone who has a router mounted in a table with a fence and a guard.

The advantage of milling your own strips allows you to "line off" the widths as others have noted. If you want to use stock lumber for your cabin overhead, pine or cedar T&G from the lumber yard will work OK but you may find as noted that you end up with some tapered pieces towards the edges. Be sure and paint/seal the backside of all wood too. The regular closed cell blue or pink foam board available everywhere is the stuff to use. Be careful when you buy your adhesive as the solvent in some construction adhesives will eat holes in the foam. Look for glue that says suitable for foam insulation.

[Kurlie1]

I had good success fixing panelling by using a construction adhesive and allowing small gaps in the glue to put dabs of hot glue which adhere instantly holding the planking in place as the structural glue sets. No need to use mechanical fastenings.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

It's unlikely that the breadth of the PH is equal throughout the fore-and-aft length, (the camber might even change?).
If this is the case, (and if you want to use individual strips,) then you first need to establish a center line, and you'll start with the outboard strips first, working in towards the center.
The "first on" outboard strips will need to be tapered to take-up any differences in breadth and/or notched/fitted to go around protrusions or fittings.
Keep the strips parallel to the center line as you go.
Then, the last strip, (that runs down the center,) will be of required width to fill that space, (wider or narrower as the case may be).
Best visual results are obtained when there are an odd number of strips, the one centerline strip with equal numbers of strips on either side.
Insulation?
Others have already covered several bases for your decision.

No offence, but I think this is bad advice.

As a trained and qualified carpenter, I would definitely NOT start at the edges of the deckhead if the Pilot House tapers at all.

Sure, find the centreline, and centre the first board over this line. If you don't do this you WILL get 'creep' and the final central board will end up slightly out of direct, straight fore-and-aft alignment. And look like crap.

Also, you will be attempting to fit the last three boards at once - the centre board and the ones either side of it, as the tongues and grooves all have to 'clip in' and then be pushed flat as one. It's tricky to get right.



I've done this with flooring as well, so trust me, this NOT the correct way to do it. For tongue and groove, that is.


Carvel planking with square edged boards you could risk doing it the other way, but it is still a risk.

I would definitely start with the central board fixed, and then work outwards, checking measurements each side as you go to 'even out' any inadvertent creep (warped boards, excess glue, non-squared-off cabin beams blah blah...)

Assuming the pilot house deck is supported by cross beams, simply fill the area between the cross beams with your choice of insulation. (If not you'll need to add beams or blocks to attach slats or boards to.)

If the beams are not very tall, like less than 50mm (2") you *could* build them up a bit by first adding some slats the width of the beams but maybe only 6-10mm thick (1/4"-3/8").

Use epoxy glue or strong waterproof glue, and screws or brads, whichever holds better in your situation (greater curve might need to use screws to prevent the slats lifting before the glue goes off).

Then once the gap between deckhead and new lining is thick/deep enough, add your insulation. Assuming the deckhead is curved slightly, board insulation is probably not going to work, especially if the 'batts' have to go lengthwise across the boat (i.e. parallel with the deckhead beams) so a flexible insulation is probably better.

Something like Rockwool, or Earthwool (but not fibreglass) or better yet Polypropylene batts. These can be cut with heavy scissors or utility knife if they do not exactly fit the gaps between deckhead beams.

Get the highest R-rating you can find.

Another good trick for fastening the tongue and groove ceiling boards is to use Cup-head screws and Cup washers. The idea of these is that you don't need to Countersink the screw heads into the face of the boards, and the cup washers support the head of the screws, proud of the surface. This is especially problematic if the boards are only 1/4" or 3/8" thick. By the time you drive the screw home flush, it's not actually hanging on to much of the actual thickness of the board. Using cup washes on the face spreads the load, provides better anchor for screwing down, so if theres' any need to 'force' a board flat, you have better purchase.

You MUST be accurate and pencil line and measure screw holes carefully, but neat lines of cuphead screws is a pretty neat way of finishing the boards. And the big advantage is you can unscrew them easily for painting boards outside of the cabin. Dry fit, then remove, paint, then refit. No paint on the screw heads or washers.

So you get neat rows of S/S cuphead washers and cuphead screws.

It's definitely a 'look'. Up to you....

But that's how I would do it....