My Steering is Loose

[Seeking Solace]

Going back to a tiller seems like a lot of work for a broken sheer pin or a bolt that may have backed out. It's possible that it was never there to begin with.

I'd be looking for what affixes the wheel to the shaft. That's a pretty easy fix even if you need to retap the hole or if a sheer key pull the wheel and replace the key. Like someone else already said, despite the fact the wheels turns on the shaft it may still be stuck on there pretty good. Just depends on how well it is attached. If it had a key and I couldn't get it off I would likely just line everything up straight and drill it with a bolt and nut. There must be a reason to have a weak link there, I just don't see it's purpose.

The only reason I'd go back to a tiller would be to reclaim some cockpit space or to sell the pedestal system. I think I've seen them new for around $300, but don't quote me on that. Not sure what the used market would be. Getting around it must be a pain for single handing, but if you look at a lot of the older vessels with a pedestal there isn't a lot of space around them either.

[charliehows]

its likely that the same fault that is causing your problem - ie a loose connection of the quadrant to the ruddershaft - would also have to be solved if reverting to a tiller. plan A is fix the existing system. If that looks like being a PITA plan B would be; revert to a tiller. My personal preference would be a tiller, for the reasons you mentioned as well as a few others, but the cheapest, easiest option is probably going to be fixing the existing system.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by charliehows

its likely that the same fault that is causing your problem - ie a loose connection of the quadrant to the ruddershaft - would also have to be solved if reverting to a tiller. plan A is fix the existing system. If that looks like being a PITA plan B would be; revert to a tiller. My personal preference would be a tiller, for the reasons you mentioned as well as a few others, but the cheapest, easiest option is probably going to be fixing the existing system.

Why would the loose quadrant have any effect whatsoever on tiller steering? The tiller connects directly to the head of the rudder post...the quadrant, loose or tight would just be going along for the ride!

Jim

[Snore]

Looking at the photos I do not see any sag in the cables.

Suggest you have someone move the wheel, while you are looking at the rudder shaft. Try to see where the lag is.

It is possible that one of the pullies may be moving while under load.

Until you know what is broke, you can't make an action plan.

[tkeithlu]

Feel all the way around the core of your quadrant between the spokes. If you don't find either a bolt sticking out or a threaded hole (that has a set screw in it, although you can't feel that) then the quadrant is secured with a key in a slot, and it is broken. repairing that will require removing the quadrant and inserting a new key. If you do find a hole or a bolt, then your quadrant is supposed to be held in place by a shallow pit in the shaft that the bolt or set screw is supposed to fit into, and the bolt or set screw is either loose or broken. A quick fix in this case is putting a appropriate bolt or set screw in, and tightening while rotating the quadrant until you find the pit, and tightening it.

All of this is independent of a decision to convert to a tiller. Just don't sail her until you do one or the other, because whichever the cause, she is very close to the quadrant rotating all the way around, ergo, no steering.

[tkeithlu]

Oh. Referencing Snore above. Everything I said is dependent on your finding that the quadrant is moving while the rudder stock is not. If they are locked together, then Snore's advice is in play.

[Kelkara]

Wow! you guys are awesome - loads of good advice.

There seems to be a lot of support for putting a tiller back in ... that was always my plan, but I was hoping it would be a "next-year project" and not a "do it now if you want a seaworthy boat" project.

It's definitely the quadrant slipping on the rudder-post. I guess my plan is to investigate/remove the quadrant to see whether it is an easy fix, and if it is, then leave the wheel for now. But if the quadrant either won't come off, or the problem is worse than just a sheared bolt/key ... it's time to think about a tiller.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

For now, perhaps it will help you to know that if you project the rudder stock in an HM27 upwards, the projection will come through the cockpit sole just FORWARD of the twartships seat on the inboard side of the transom.

Since the wheel is not original the rudder-post still sticks up into the cockpit and is where the emergency steering attaches, but I'm not sure if it has been cut down from the original length.
...

Sleeve together the top of the existing stock with a piece of round bar of the same diameter. Though-bolt the sleeve on both parts of the stock. Where the new part of the stock comes through the deck fit a stuffing box like the one at the inboard end of your stern tube.

I hadn't thought of this, but I presume that is to prevent a flooded cockpit draining into the bilge - for which the current arrangement is actually not so good - unfortunately this might make the current rudder post too short.

The tank is a kerosene tank for the stove - it will have to be removed to take up the deck-plate that provides access to the quadrant - It might be possible to get tools onto the quadrant while hanging upside down in a locker, but it was hard enough just getting the camera in there. But I think it would take me 2 years full time to burn 12gal of Kerosene in the stove (There is a kerosene heater too, which might make the size of the tank understandable, but there is nowhere sensible to install the heater so it just wastes space in a locker uninstalled), so I won't miss the tank.

pic shows the top of the rudder post sticking up through the cockpit sole. There is currently just a fiberglass cap that goes over it. The SS post is the emergency steering attachment that bolts onto the rudder post.

[Halifax Sailor]

if you are going to get rid of the Cinkle pedestal, i would be interested in talking to you about certain parts.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Wow! you guys are awesome - loads of good advice.

There seems to be a lot of support for putting a tiller back in ... that was always my plan, but I was hoping it would be a "next-year project" and not a "do it now if you want a seaworthy boat" project.

It's definitely the quadrant slipping on the rudder-post. I guess my plan is to investigate/remove the quadrant to see whether it is an easy fix, and if it is, then leave the wheel for now. But if the quadrant either won't come off, or the problem is worse than just a sheared bolt/key ... it's time to think about a tiller.



The tank is a kerosene tank for the stove - it will have to be removed to take up the deck-plate that provides access to the quadrant - It might be possible to get tools onto the quadrant while hanging upside down in a locker, but it was hard enough just getting the camera in there. But I think it would take me 2 years full time to burn 12gal of Kerosene in the stove (There is a kerosene heater too, which might make the size of the tank understandable, but there is nowhere sensible to install the heater so it just wastes space in a locker uninstalled), so I won't miss the tank.

pic shows the top of the rudder post sticking up through the cockpit sole. There is currently just a fiberglass cap that goes over it. The SS post is the emergency steering attachment that bolts onto the rudder post.

That appears to maybe be long enough for a tiller fitting. As you said, is there also room for a gland etc to keep it waterproof?

[Jim Cate]

That appears to maybe be long enough for a tiller fitting. As you said, is there also room for a gland etc to keep it waterproof?
_

Why will he need a packing gland now, when he is not changing the exit of the rudder post from its current configuration? Looks to me like simply finding or fabricating a fitting that clamps to the rudder post and has some means of connecting to a tiller. There must be some sort of seal/packing/stuffing box on the rudder post already, somewhere below the cockpit sole and the quadrant, or else there would now be water getting in.

Jim

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Why will he need a packing gland now, when he is not changing the exit of the rudder post from its current configuration? Looks to me like simply finding or fabricating a fitting that clamps to the rudder post and has some means of connecting to a tiller. There must be some sort of seal/packing/stuffing box on the rudder post already, somewhere below the cockpit sole and the quadrant, or else there would now be water getting in.

Jim

Uhhh... because there's a big hole in the cockpit floor around the shaft?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Uhhh... because there's a big hole in the cockpit floor around the shaft?

Same hole as there is now as far as I can see. The rudder post extends above the sole, so the only mod is to attach the tiller head and tiller. Nothing else changes (other than removing the pedestal so there is room for the tiller to swing).

And if he removes that kero tank and the wheel, his cockpit is gonna seem HUGE to him!

Jim

PS Just had a better look at his photo... the rudder post is already drilled for a locking through-bolt... easy peasy!

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Same hole as there is now as far as I can see. The rudder post extends above the sole, so the only mod is to attach the tiller head and tiller. Nothing else changes (other than removing the pedestal so there is room for the tiller to swing).

And if he removes that kero tank and the wheel, his cockpit is gonna seem HUGE to him!

Jim

PS Just had a better look at his photo... the rudder post is already drilled for a locking through-bolt... easy peasy!

Definitely liking the idea of that huge cockpit.

But at the moment there is a fiberglass cap that covers the hole - it's anything but a perfect seal, but it should slow down water ingress while the cockpit drains do their job. It would be nice to make sure that there is some kind of seal there that is better than a straight hole.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Definitely liking the idea of that huge cockpit.

But at the moment there is a fiberglass cap that covers the hole - it's anything but a perfect seal, but it should slow down water ingress while the cockpit drains do their job. It would be nice to make sure that there is some kind of seal there that is better than a straight hole.

OK, it didn't look like it had a seal in the cap!

So, a simple flange with either a lip seal or an O-ring to fit the shaft will do the job. You could make it up out of starboard or aluminium or FRP. Only machining required would be for the seat for a lip seal or a groove for an o-ring. I think I'd go for the lip seal, for it will be more tolerant of a sloppy fit... anyhow, then a couple of screws to hold the flange to the sole and bob's your uncle.

Jim

[CARGO]

YES REVERT TO TILLER THEN SELL ME YOUR AUTOPILOT!!