My mind is in the gutter. Fiberglass advice needed.

[NevisDog]

... and if you do decide to glass in a piece of 4x2, the most critical part is remembering to seal every stanchion bolt hole that you drill through the timber. Drill out all holes way oversize and fill with epoxy (there are ways to make life easier by oversize drilling only to the bottom layer of GRP, inserting waxed bolts upwards, or wood plugs, in the EXACT locations before pouring the filler, etc, but that's the gist of it.) Otherwise you end up with rotting, saturated timber in 4 years or so and you have to redo whole chunks (unless you plan to sell immediately of course, and I just hate that approach).

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

... and if you do decide to glass in a piece of 4x2, the most critical part is remembering to seal every stanchion bolt hole that you drill through the timber. Drill out all holes way oversize and fill with epoxy (there are ways to make life easier by oversize drilling only to the bottom layer of GRP, inserting waxed bolts upwards, or wood plugs, in the EXACT locations before pouring the filler, etc, but that's the gist of it.) Otherwise you end up with rotting, saturated timber in 4 years or so and you have to redo whole chunks (unless you plan to sell immediately of course, and I just hate that approach).

No, if I take on the project, it will be done properly even though the plan is to sell the boat in the next 12-15 months. Thanks for that bit of advice. I'm going to experiment with lumber, and the solid fiberglass "board", but I'd think that it would need the pre drill and epoxy treatment as well.

[Fence Man]

Any advice on a good source of materials online? I'd like to get a bit ordered to have a go at a test piece or three.

[Zach]

Rather than making a fiberglass and paint job:


Try taking a water barrel at the transom on deck and fill it up half way and hose the top deck down... See if the water still stands. Fill it up all the way and see if the water still stands on deck and see how far out of trim you go to your waterline.



I worked on a boat that puddled water on her cabin. The culprit ended up being a pair of auxiliary fuel tanks that turned into the main tanks with the originals mothballed in place dry. Talk about some weird drainage issues... The originals were middle of the boat, and the auxiliaries aft of the shaft struts...



Took a bit of studying line plans and dropping tape measures to say, "hey... the waterline is painted to match her current trim, and she's inches off of her designed waterline...."


An inch or two makes a big difference in trim fore and aft, and can make your gutters drain the way they are supposed to...

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Zach

Rather than making a fiberglass and paint job:


Try taking a water barrel at the transom on deck and fill it up half way and hose the top deck down... See if the water still stands. Fill it up all the way and see if the water still stands on deck and see how far out of trim you go to your waterline.



I worked on a boat that puddled water on her cabin. The culprit ended up being a pair of auxiliary fuel tanks that turned into the main tanks with the originals mothballed in place dry. Talk about some weird drainage issues... The originals were middle of the boat, and the auxiliaries aft of the shaft struts...



Took a bit of studying line plans and dropping tape measures to say, "hey... the waterline is painted to match her current trim, and she's inches off of her designed waterline...."


An inch or two makes a big difference in trim fore and aft, and can make your gutters drain the way they are supposed to...

I've played with the tanks to see if it can be solved that way, and it's a no go. It's a fairly large boat, and is built more like a barge. I've linked a photo in below, as I know this is mostly a sailing forum, and our boat doesn't fit in very well......Yet. We have 925 gallons of tankage, and I've experimented in every direction possible, with no success. I really do believe that it is a serious flaw in the design, and agree with the surveyor that recommended the change.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Fence Man

Would a solid fiberglass "board" be better than lumber?

In your original post I liked the 3rd pic of the stanchions bases (of the other boat) raised on the board. You could then recreate your gutter slightly further inboard. With it slightly inboard it may be possible (??) to through bolt the bases with backing plates or at least fender washers. Never trusted wood screws to hold if someone fell against the lifelines/rail.

Would not use lumber/wood as it will eventually rot when glassed in. Instead use HDU (high density urethane) board like Coosa. A little more expensive but once done, it's done. We've been using it for replacement of wood items on deck and reconstruction of an enclosed shower. It's extremely easy to work with normal tools.


Would sand off old surface and re-glass the gutter area to make it flow better. When we redid our deck a few years back, we wanted to make sure our gutter (we used same term) was also free flowing to efficiently remove water from the deck.


A bit more work but in the end it will last longer.


Bill O.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Bill O

In your original post I liked the 3rd pic of the stanchions bases (of the other boat) raised on the board. You could then recreate your gutter slightly further inboard. With it slightly inboard it may be possible (??) to through bolt the bases with backing plates or at least fender washers. Never trusted wood screws to hold if someone fell against the lifelines/rail.

Would not use lumber/wood as it will eventually rot when glassed in. Instead use HDU (high density urethane) board like Coosa. A little more expensive but once done, it's done. We've been using it for replacement of wood items on deck and reconstruction of an enclosed shower. It's extremely easy to work with normal tools.


Would sand off old surface and re-glass the gutter area to make it flow better. When we redid our deck a few years back, we wanted to make sure our gutter (we used same term) was also free flowing to efficiently remove water from the deck.


A bit more work but in the end it will last longer.


Bill O.

Thanks Bill! I would rather spend a little more now, and have it done right. I like to document repairs, as I think it is helpful when it comes time to sell. I will look into the HDU for sure.

[Zach]

The boat I had to move tankage around on was 80 feet long with 16 foot beam and registered as 100 tons... But a 300lb guy standing on the stem still visibly changed the trim. Four 500 gallon fuel tanks and 1500 gallons worth of water on board. The two fuel tanks we moved, had a moment arm 22 feet off the center of buoyancy, and the cabin doors suddenly worked better.



Quite a few custom power boats use lead ingots as ballast to set trim under their rudder tables or just ahead of the planing waterline... Don't discount it just because you've tried using the current tankage. If the tanks are on center like they should be the boat goes up and down evenly.



Get two fat friends on the transom and get in the dinghy and measure the difference at the waterline. If your house battery bank could use new cables, think about moving them aft.



One of those things, even if it is a barge hull if you set a volkswagen on the stern it will change the trim, its just not that big of a boat.


Make sure a disassembled volkswagen isn't stored forward of your center of bouyancy on board.


I second Coosa board if you choose to open up a big can of worms and a lot of extra work. You will have to plastic wrap the whole boat, and need to do a multi-layer taping job or you'll have masking tape permanently bonded to the paint. t looks like you've got 60 linear feet to do, so ballpark a few hours a foot.



Any slightly sticky epoxy or polyester resin covered gloved hand and foot print will turn yellow in a few months and it'll look like a 3 year old finger painted the boat. If you don't plastic wrap it, you'll have resin drops on your windows and your dog.



Coosa board works well with ATC corebond and a notched trowel. You can use bricks or concrete pavers for weight. Corebond gives you a 45 minute working time and works well with polyester resin. Keep the board narrower than 6 inches including the glass overlap on both sides and you can use a roll of 1208 or 1708 tabbing set in polyester. You can cut an 1/8th inch rebate in with a router and lap layers of glass a single layer of 1708 would be plenty, two layers of 1208 if you don't want to rebate and stagger joints instead.


Keep the total width wider than 4 inches so you can power sand it with a 5 inch sander. 3 7/8ths gets you 12 strips and 96 linear feet out of a sheet, leave room for your saw kerf and run it through a table saw... otherwise you end up with the last piece being narrow from the waste. Use a router table or build a jig and put a 45 degree bevel on both sides. If you use a skil saw and have a wavy hand, you end up with a wavy finish and more work. Use the largest air roller in length and width 3/4 by 6 if you can make it fit the existing radius of the deck edge. The wider the tools you use, the better the finish. You can segment a curve, but hopefully you have a chalk line straight edge to work off of. If you have a curve to work off, you can use a router arm and cut it in place. Bond in oversize, cut the line and grind back. Otherwise you add more work having to scribe in the radius or you end up with something that looks round as a stop sign, pretty difficult to end up with a nice job on a curve without using screws to test fit.



The only bad act Coosa pulls is in direct sunlight it ends up with a surface temp above 140f so you need to work 5-8pm or early mornings if you don't rig up a sun shade. Agricultural shade cloth works well. Otherwise you'll go snow blind working on a white deck all day... You can lay a tarp down on deck for masking, and astroturf works well to absorb any spills. Otherwise you need a game plan for the first quart cup of resin that gets knocked over and dumped down the side.



Don't try to wrap the fiberglass over the outer face, kill it out on deck in the existing fillet and pull an epoxy fairing bead over it to smooth out. If you do 1/2 inch coosa board, you will have a 5/8ths tall finished piece with only part of the 45 degree bevel down to fill. Say a 3/8 thick filled area, 3/4 wide. 6 ounces mixed makes about a quart of 407 thickened putty. If you want to make time, buy a pail of Awlgrip Awlfair.



Limit the amount of paint work you have to do... Plastic cover it and don't sand anything you don't want to have to paint. If you don't mask the whole boat you will have a nightmare.



Most of the time there is no logical stopping point for paint work on the outer brow of a cabin top. Pulling a tape line down the bottom edge of a drip edge evenly is one of the more aggravating things to try... So study what your fall back plan is on paint work if you decide to tab to the outer face. Standing on deck leaning out over the edge of the boat sander in hand far overhead... staring at the sun... is a lot of fun. Very hard to kneel on the top of the boat and reach out under yourself and see what you are sanding. So... Don't tab over the outer radius unless you hate yourself.



If you have room on deck you can cantilever staging out over the boat like I did in the picture below. Works well but takes a bit of material... Working on deck on your knees for 40 feet a side will make you feel like laying hard wood flooring all day is a trip to the day spa.



The deadman on the inboard side just hold things from going out of rack while the load path goes to the fish mouthed boards at the hull to deck joint.



Anything you can do to talk yourself out of a couple weeks worth of work is worth doing, up to and including if you don't use the upper deck... Ditch the handrail.



Cheers,


Zach

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Fence Man

Thanks Bill! I would rather spend a little more now, and have it done right. I like to document repairs, as I think it is helpful when it comes time to sell. I will look into the HDU for sure.

Here was a coaming repair/rebuild we did a couple of years ago w/HDU. Phoenix's Flight: Rebuilding the Windshield Coamings with HDU Board



Bill O.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Zach

The boat I had to move tankage around on was 80 feet long with 16 foot beam and registered as 100 tons... But a 300lb guy standing on the stem still visibly changed the trim. Four 500 gallon fuel tanks and 1500 gallons worth of water on board. The two fuel tanks we moved, had a moment arm 22 feet off the center of buoyancy, and the cabin doors suddenly worked better.



Quite a few custom power boats use lead ingots as ballast to set trim under their rudder tables or just ahead of the planing waterline... Don't discount it just because you've tried using the current tankage. If the tanks are on center like they should be the boat goes up and down evenly.



Get two fat friends on the transom and get in the dinghy and measure the difference at the waterline. If your house battery bank could use new cables, think about moving them aft.



One of those things, even if it is a barge hull if you set a volkswagen on the stern it will change the trim, its just not that big of a boat.


Make sure a disassembled volkswagen isn't stored forward of your center of bouyancy on board.


I second Coosa board if you choose to open up a big can of worms and a lot of extra work. You will have to plastic wrap the whole boat, and need to do a multi-layer taping job or you'll have masking tape permanently bonded to the paint. t looks like you've got 60 linear feet to do, so ballpark a few hours a foot.



Any slightly sticky epoxy or polyester resin covered gloved hand and foot print will turn yellow in a few months and it'll look like a 3 year old finger painted the boat. If you don't plastic wrap it, you'll have resin drops on your windows and your dog.



Coosa board works well with ATC corebond and a notched trowel. You can use bricks or concrete pavers for weight. Corebond gives you a 45 minute working time and works well with polyester resin. Keep the board narrower than 6 inches including the glass overlap on both sides and you can use a roll of 1208 or 1708 tabbing set in polyester. You can cut an 1/8th inch rebate in with a router and lap layers of glass a single layer of 1708 would be plenty, two layers of 1208 if you don't want to rebate and stagger joints instead.


Keep the total width wider than 4 inches so you can power sand it with a 5 inch sander. 3 7/8ths gets you 12 strips and 96 linear feet out of a sheet, leave room for your saw kerf and run it through a table saw... otherwise you end up with the last piece being narrow from the waste. Use a router table or build a jig and put a 45 degree bevel on both sides. If you use a skil saw and have a wavy hand, you end up with a wavy finish and more work. Use the largest air roller in length and width 3/4 by 6 if you can make it fit the existing radius of the deck edge. The wider the tools you use, the better the finish. You can segment a curve, but hopefully you have a chalk line straight edge to work off of. If you have a curve to work off, you can use a router arm and cut it in place. Bond in oversize, cut the line and grind back. Otherwise you add more work having to scribe in the radius or you end up with something that looks round as a stop sign, pretty difficult to end up with a nice job on a curve without using screws to test fit.



The only bad act Coosa pulls is in direct sunlight it ends up with a surface temp above 140f so you need to work 5-8pm or early mornings if you don't rig up a sun shade. Agricultural shade cloth works well. Otherwise you'll go snow blind working on a white deck all day... You can lay a tarp down on deck for masking, and astroturf works well to absorb any spills. Otherwise you need a game plan for the first quart cup of resin that gets knocked over and dumped down the side.



Don't try to wrap the fiberglass over the outer face, kill it out on deck in the existing fillet and pull an epoxy fairing bead over it to smooth out. If you do 1/2 inch coosa board, you will have a 5/8ths tall finished piece with only part of the 45 degree bevel down to fill. Say a 3/8 thick filled area, 3/4 wide. 6 ounces mixed makes about a quart of 407 thickened putty. If you want to make time, buy a pail of Awlgrip Awlfair.



Limit the amount of paint work you have to do... Plastic cover it and don't sand anything you don't want to have to paint. If you don't mask the whole boat you will have a nightmare.



Most of the time there is no logical stopping point for paint work on the outer brow of a cabin top. Pulling a tape line down the bottom edge of a drip edge evenly is one of the more aggravating things to try... So study what your fall back plan is on paint work if you decide to tab to the outer face. Standing on deck leaning out over the edge of the boat sander in hand far overhead... staring at the sun... is a lot of fun. Very hard to kneel on the top of the boat and reach out under yourself and see what you are sanding. So... Don't tab over the outer radius unless you hate yourself.



If you have room on deck you can cantilever staging out over the boat like I did in the picture below. Works well but takes a bit of material... Working on deck on your knees for 40 feet a side will make you feel like laying hard wood flooring all day is a trip to the day spa.



The deadman on the inboard side just hold things from going out of rack while the load path goes to the fish mouthed boards at the hull to deck joint.



Anything you can do to talk yourself out of a couple weeks worth of work is worth doing, up to and including if you don't use the upper deck... Ditch the handrail.



Cheers,


Zach

I didn't mean to imply that I can't change the trim of the boat, rather than unless the stern were under water, and the bow in a tree, water does not drain freely past the stanchions. The cabin top is crowned, and with the stanchions in the way, it causes trouble. Water simply has no place to go, and aside from the damage it'll do, I'm tired of cleaning around all of them with a toothbrush every time I'm on the boat. I can appreciate the side of the aisle that would vote to go the easy route, but doing away with 1,100 square feet of often used space is not an option. That would kill the value, and eliminate my favorite place on the boat. A couple of weeks on the boat would be a welcome break for me, no matter how hard the work is. There are certainly people with less comfortable, more labor intensive jobs than mine, but I'm pretty well used to miserable conditions and work. I'd say that with the combination of Bloody Marys for breakfast, beer for lunch, and margaritas for diner, it would be a quite pleasant change of pace.
The deadmen are to support the party top, or bimini, that is up there. At 24'x16', it can catch a bit of wind.

Thanks for your detailed response on the technical bits. Much appreciated!







It's the best place I have for watching a solar eclipse, and cold sundowners. No way I'm doing away with it!

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Here was a coaming repair/rebuild we did a couple of years ago w/HDU. Phoenix's Flight: Rebuilding the Windshield Coamings with HDU Board



Bill O.

That turned out very nice!