My Costs Of Refurbishing An Old Boat

[kennyarmes]

Cal31 asking 35 survey 2014 for 56

Sent from my VS985 4G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by basssears

Hah, I should print this post out... my brother likes to buy and restore late '60's / early '70's Alfa Romeos and he thinks my boat habit is frivolous To each their own disease I guess.

What, he needs help and quickly. I used to drive a Alfa Sud Ti in the 1908s, great car to drive but the bodywork was held together only by they very thin paint. The wiring was shocking, literally and spares from Italy, well on back order for 3 months as its the Italian Holidays and everything closes down for the summer

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Hanksy

Do most posters here do the work themselves and the prices reflect parts price or price plus labour? Some cost estimates are scary!

Sent from my HUAWEI SCL-L01 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

This particular refit is higher than it needed to be because of money wasted in engine costs. When we bought the boat it was not operational because of some engine issues and it was already in a boatyard that had a mechanic. We didn't know anything about that boatyard and in retrospect we should have had the boat trucked to our own marina where we could get it worked on by people we knew and trusted. But it was a large, well-established marina/boatyard and they offered to store the boat for free while working on the engine so we decided to let them go ahead. They charged by the hour and rather than telling us we needed a complete rebuild they just repaired things piece meal, constantly finding "one more thing," and I think they must have worked mighty slow too because that billable hour meter was ticking like crazy. We had to even locate and pay for most of our own parts, as every time there was a delay they always told us it was because they "couldn't find parts." They dragged their feet, the boat was there for over a year and by the time they were "done" they had charged us over $11K, plus another $2K we had spent ourselves on parts. The day we motored the boat out of their marina we couldn't get the RPMs up high enough and had only gone about 2 miles when the oil pressure dropped. We made the decision to keep going rather than turn back into their facility because the thought of letting them gouge us any further was unthinkable.

By the time we arrived "home" (26 nm up the Chesapeake Bay) we knew the engine was going to need to come back out, and our mechanic confirmed that this was the case. Not all the money we spent with them was wasted. The cutlass bearing, engine mounts, prop, and shaft were good. But mostly it was a large sum of money down the drain.

This past winter we got it completely rebuilt by someone we trust for half of what that other place ripped us off for, and that included all the parts and a new fuel tank. It also turned out the previous mechanics had done some things that caused damage, like tighting the bolts on the muffler so tight that it cracked the mounts in all four corners, and not cleaning the sludge out of the crankcase. All that gunk got sucked up into the oil filter and blocked it. What a fricking mess.

To be honest, had we known in the beginning what we know now we would have just repowered with a new engine, but we started the process thinking we just needed a new timing cover and water pump">raw water pump. Things just kept snowballing from there and by the second go around there just wasn't money left in the budget for that with all the other things still needing to be done. Total engine costs all said and done will be about $20K.

We have usually done our own rigging in the past by having the wire made up by Defender and then installing ourselves. This time we are having a rigger do it, and we are installing a new roller furling unit. Those two items alone are about $6K of the budget.

The sailcover on our main had completely disintegrated. The mainsail had been hanging on the boom for the 6 years the boat was abandoned and it was UV rotted. The genoa was in pretty bad shape as well. Two new sails are a little over $4K. (On a positive note though, I make my own canvas and I scored 15 yards of Sunbrella in my color on eBay for $170, so at least the new mainsail and bimini covers will be a bargain.)

So with the $15K we paid for the boat, just the engine, sails, and rig alone brought the total up to about $45K. And there was still plenty more to do.

Everything except the engine and rigging we are doing ourselves. Well, we did have a new bow rail made. Didn't do that ourselves. Our boat had been bashed around a bit in a storm before we bought it and both bow and stern rails were pretty messed up. The stern rail was repairable but the bow rail was not. I can't remember what that cost offhand but it was a good chunk of change for the two. With foam, fabric, and notions I think I am spending around $2K for cushions, interor and cockpit. That includes all the accompanying fluff, like curtains, throw pillows, even a couple of beanbags for the cockpit.

As I think I said in my first post, the total to get it complete, from the standpoint of functionality, safety, seaworthiness and also living aboard comfort will actually only be around $68K. And that is not only the cost of actual repairs and refurbishment of the boat but also includes outfitting with gear, such as the dinghy, electronics, and even our fishing rods and reels. The $80K figure is with other items that are on a wish list of things that would be nice to have someday but are not necessary by any means and we will get around to those when we have the time and money available, or not.

And, as an aside....since we are now 62 and 66 years old we will likely never have to replace the rigging or sails again in the time we own the boat. No matter what age boat you buy, if you own it for a length of time these are costs that are going to come up at some point. Same with engine repairs, although hopefully you never make the mistake we did in that regard. We could have bought a 10-15 year newer boat for what the Cape Dory will end up costing us, but I guarantee you it still would have needed additional funds for repairs and upgrades eventually, if not immediately.

Plus, this boat is the one that makes our hearts go pitty-pat. We are happy with our choice.

[bletso]

I just added up all my expenses so far on my 4 year refurb.
misc - travel to boat shows, supply houses, non of which are anywhere near KY, etc $1952
Tools - To make all my goodies $1938
Equip - Electronics, toilet, etc $4711
Consumables - Sand paper, covers, i.e. Things which you consume, but don't become part of the boat $3257
Supplies - epoxy, marine ply, ss screws, paint, you get the idea, They become one with the boat $11413
Standing rigging $4000

The worst part of it all is that it could have almost all been avoided by proper care of Vigah. The positive side is I know how she is put together and it is good therapy, whatever that means. I sure am glad that I am almost finished. She need to get back in her element and that is not on the hard.

[zeehag]

ok so i traded essentially a 35 ericson for a 41 formosa, ended up paying out 4650, which is what i go tfor ericson.
i have replaced engine-first time with a used perkins, which ranaway in barra de navidad lagoon, after putting 3000 miles on it.
before i left on my misadventure, i replaced the baccking plate fro my bow, and da bulkhead. i added a manual windlass. added 196 ft 5/16 chain an da 30 kg bruce.
on my way!!!!
fiddled a lot with engine, and enjoyed the hell out of my test driving of formosa 41 from san diego to zihuat and back as far as barra de navidad.
rebuilt engine, repaired lil maintenance items and some very serious sabotage work done , and left to mazatlan for further repairs and refitting.
the number of dollars you spend is dependent on your use of brains and negotiations and knowledge of boat sin general.
many spend ad lib, and then complain about how much it all costs.
some look for decent deals on specific items and forget abouyt the labor and incidentals then complain about the price of repairing boats
most of the ones complaining of high pricing donot shop wisely.
i hate shopping
i dislike dishonesty--omg why do i then have a boat, you ask...as most all the readily locatable repair soullesses have huge adverts, and the good ones are silently word of mouth..you wouldnt take your kids to a television advertised pediatrician, would you?? why , then, do you go to the loudest and most obnoxiously advertised boat physicians????
same theory.
i have found i only spend what i need to spend. some items are higher priced and worthy of that higher price, than others.
figger what you would wish to spend on personal safety and dry bedding.
keep it afloat.
propel it...what would you want to have to pay for the propulsion devices(yes there are more than one in a SAILboat) and what are these devices worth to you ?
make sure your boat actually works then go out and enjoy it. the rest can be done underway or in ports visited.
i found each locale to have different specialties, as far as repairs are concerned. some places are good for wood repairs, others for engine.
keep your eyes open and listen to the people in the areas you choose to cruise.
to save dough, one must think outside the box and be extremely flexible.
and always remember--what monetary value has your life to you??? and go from there.....
oh yeah--so far, i have put out a whopping 7000 usd in repairs. owned boat since 2008 or so. cruised it since 2011, april.
i break down in the most convenient locales.

[KISS]

For what it's worth, I specced out the boat I'm planning to build, and for everything other than the shell the estimate comes in at just under $29,000 (materials only - no labor). This is for a 30'er with a fairly minimalist set-up. So, your figure of $27,000 for a 34'er, only refitting extensively rather than building from the ground up, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Good luck with your project!

[ohdrinkboy]

I paid about 7k for my 22 footer. After 9 years of sailing her I debated refit or sell and buy another boat. Went for the refit, spent about 8k. Now i've got $15k in her, is she worth it? No. Could I buy a boat in the same condition for $15k? It would be difficult. Now looking back 10 years after the refit...it was well worth it. Have I gotten $15k worth of enjoyment in the past 19 years? Hell yes!

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

I paid about 7k for my 22 footer. After 9 years of sailing her I debated refit or sell and buy another boat. Went for the refit, spent about 8k. Now i've got $15k in her, is she worth it? No. Could I buy a boat in the same condition for $15k? It would be difficult. Now looking back 10 years after the refit...it was well worth it. Have I gotten $15k worth of enjoyment in the past 19 years? Hell yes!

I should say you have!! That's less than $1000 a year for the best entertainment going. You can easily spend a lot more than that doing nothing special that you won't remember two weeks from now.

[oldragbaggers]

No complaints, Zee, with the exception of that one damned boatyard

After all these years and several pretty extensive refits I guess we have been either lucky, blessed, or (at least sometimes) smart, because this is the only time we have ever been what I consider blatantly ripped off. Even beyond that, we have been given gear and supplies and had people jump in and help with hard jobs. We have gotten some great deals on boats that have given us so much pleasure, and we have made so many great friends and had so many fun adventures on our boats and because of our boats. No matter what they cost us I think they have been worth every penny.

As far as the cost of the boat we are doing now, I honestly don't see why anyone would think it is an unreasonably high price to pay. For a stoutly built boat, in a design that we really love, that is completely outfitted with all new gear, and finished to our own taste, I think it's a bargain. Of course it would have been a better bargain without that one mistake, but....**** happens.

[Yeti]

My Cascade was built in 1972 and I bought her in October of 2012 for $20k. Since then I've dropped at least another $15-20K in her on maintenance and upgrades. I don't mind doing it though.
I believe I got her for a pretty good deal at the time. The market in SD at the time was still fairly depressed and the owner that I bought it from ended up having to leave it in SD and return to his home for health reasons. So I'm sure I saved a few bucks on it. The boat was functional at the time but had pretty basic stuff and there was definitely some deferred maintenance that needed to happen. If I was to try and spend $40k on a boat today I believe I would still need to be dropping money in it to have the boat I have now.
The main reason I don't mind dropping the money on my boat is that my boat is my fall back plan. When I first bought it I lived on it for a year and then moved in my current GF. I've been with the GF for 3.5 years now but she doesn't sail and as I always tell people one day she's going to wise up and kick me to the curb. When she does I'll have the boat and it will be comfortable and functional.
The other reason is that I love working on it. Doing things with your own hands and seeing them work is always a great thing. Since I've owned it I've done about 90% of the work myself and I'm proud of that. My work isn't always up to "professional standards" but it seems to do the job.
Since the GF doesn't sail (yet) I definitely don't get out as much as I'd like to but I still average one "sanity sail a week for a couple of hours before work and I always get a 10-14 day trip around SoCal in the late summer.

In short, having an older boat and spending the money on it works for me.

[Capt Gary]

I bought a 1987 39 ft Pearson for $38,000 and spent another $35,000 on refurbishment/repair/upgrade. The advantage is that you learn all the systems; where wiring and plumbing leads to; and where everything is in general. If you have the time and ability, it is certainly the way to go, at least for your first big boat. I would do it all over again without a doubt.

[TheThunderbird]

Uneconomic efforts!?

Possibly so. It is my definition for LUXURY (which must be uneconomic).

But in the end, as many of us pointed out, we come up with a boat like no one, and far DIFFERENT (better!?) from current production (which many dislike, or can't afford).

To a higher level, if you want a wooden boat, you get an old one!

[TheThunderbird]

@ Capt Gary

Double the figures for a 54footer
And the time ...2years

I miss the time to be doing it again, that's a reason for doing it only on your LAST BOAT :-)

[bikesherpa]

Hi,
I bought a 1998 43' boat in the Med for $75K and put $45k+ into it for a complete refurbishing over 3 years (new more powerful engine, new rigging, all new electronics, etc.). The boat was in sailing conditions since the beginning, so I sailed it all summers since I bought it and did the work in winter. Only some of the maintenance I did was a must-do, most was a nice-to-have. Overall I am very happy with the boat, I know it inside out, had pleasure sailing and maintaining it. I know that I will not get back the money spent if I want to sell it, but that is the cost of a passion.

[bradpb]

One of the reasons I use for the justification on spending buckets of cash on an old boat is safety and reliability . This is not Motor Home that is just a phone call away from help and a tow truck, this is a vehicle that could potentially be lost on the rocks before help arrives. As a boat owner I believe that you are entrusted with your passengers safety and comfort.

Having an old boat has forced me into looking at all systems and coming up with contingency plans for their eventual failure. It certainly has given me intimate knowledge of the boat and has forced me to learn a boat load of new things.

I would like to have been able to afford spending $200,000 on a newer boat , but I can't take that money away from my retirement savings, so fixing up an older boat piecemeal is the option I am faced with if I would like to participate in the boating world.