Moving Chainplates to hull exterior on Alberg30...

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

100% agree.

Sorry Tatia, I read his book so long ago, I somehow mixed up his account. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Siberianhusky]

Ever sailed an Alberg? Been on one? Best description I have ever heard of one is "Its a 25 foot boat you pay 30 foot fees for". Wet, uncomfortable, small on the inside, tender, a pig on skates has better slow speed handling under power especially reverse.

I admit they are a pretty boat, but that is where it ends for me. There are many newer designs (still 40 or 50 years old!) that are much better boats for what you want to do.
Good friend has one that is in the slip right across from my boat, spent plenty of time on it in the last 10 years. You either love them or hate them. I make no apologies for which side I'm on.
Spend some time on one before you get to excited.

[Cheechako]

Those Albergs are great boats. I see no issue with moving the chain plates unless you love to pinch up to weather. Even then it all depends on the sails you have also. But many cruising boats have the tracks on the toe rails anyway.

[salfarina]

Hello WingRyder - Your love of the old Albergs, Pearsons, Bristols, etc is quite understandable - they were some of the finest vessels ever produced!! Moving the chainplates may involve spreader issues, as the spreaders are rather precisely designed to lead the cap shrouds straight down. I'm no expert, however, there is a fellow who specializes in rebuilding/refitting Albergs and he's posted a vast amount of video's on You Tube as "atomvoyager". I'm sure you can glean much from his You Tube site and if you contact him (via the site or his website "Atomvoyages") he can probably advise you.


Good luck and fair winds!

[laika]

I externalized the lowers on my Vancouver a few years back. The original deck mounted lowers were glassed in and long overdue for replacement. Moving them outward a few inches also gave me a bit more sidedeck clearance which was great. I beefed up the topside area inside the hull where the new chainplates would go, used solid backing plates, and got the blessing of a reputable rigger before going through with it.

I agree with some other posters tho..Maybe it'll be a good idea for the boat you end up with, maybe not? Only speaking for myself, I undertook the project because it was time for new chainplates on my particular boat.

There are far too many things to throw time and money at if you're really trying!

[MartinAdelaide]

I have a different boat, an Austral 20. At my club there are 4 Australs, with mine being the oldest. My shrouds go to chain plates fixed around the beamshelf between the top and bottom moulds. All the others have the chainplates inboard, bolted through plywood pads. There's about 10 - 12" difference in width and almost no difference in lateral position. I'll be moving mine inwards as the timber has rotted away due to water ingress.

[James S]

When I did my refit I pulled my chainplates...To my surprise a full 3rd of the bolts were broken... I can't believe I didn't loose the rig..BTW this was after a 10 month trip from Vancouver BC to Beirut Lebanon...
I don't think I would feel safe on a boat that I couldn't insure the integrity of the bolts..
If you are set on that boat and after considering some of the valid points others have mentioned.. Id say move them.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by Suijin

In my opinion you’re designing a labor intensive solution to a non-existent problem.

If you’re concerned about strength replace the existing chain plates with beefier ones, seal the deck *properly* and maintain it *properly*. Leaks come from bad craftsmanship/materials and poor maintenance.

I know quite a few A30 owners, most of the knowledgeable and competent. None of them have considered your plan.

Be careful about amassing too much theoretical knowledge without tempering it with actual experience.

Is your plan feasible? Certainly. Is it “an improvement? Maybe. Is it a huge amount of work? Yes. Is it necessary? Absolutely not.

Thanks Suijin. Very succinct response, and pretty much, what I needed to hear. Just from my armchair knowledge of boats (i.e. NONE AT ALL!), it just seems that running a structural support through a hole in the deck, that is prone to flex and movement, just feels like a bad idea! I realize that 99% of sailboats have through-deck chainplates, but, I'm not sure what the advantage is.

At any rate. It wouldn't be something I would EVER attempt without seeking out professional advice. I am mainly seeking preliminary thoughts on the subject, as there is little info about moving chainplates... perhaps for good reason. But there are several people out there who have external chainplates that tout the advantages... and their argument seems logical to me.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Best advice so far.

You are overthinking the situation and a bit premature, but I understand your concern.

• Yves Gelinas modified his chain plates before his circumnavigation on the A30 and he ended up dismasting and if I remember correctly, some of the bolts gave up. Did you watch his video? Also, you could contact him for his advice.
• One of the structural problems with the A30 is not the chain plates but the mast support, the underdeck definitely needs to be beefed up.
• Before moving the chain plates outboard you need to check the deck-hull joint to determine if it will be impacted and/or need reinforcing - the stresses will be different on the joint itself.

And you are right, the A30s are lovely boats - they look like a mini version of my Luders 33.



The risks are not with the chain plates themselves, but how they are attached to the hull.

Thanks for the link, I have watched some of his Videos as well as most of atomvoyages collection. (I realize that Atom is a Triton 28, but very similar).

James Baldwin has several videos about A30 mods as well as several other pocket Water boats">blue water boats. From his refit videos, I am aware of the mast support issue. It was *mostly* fixed on later models, but it needs to be heavily reinforced... that is something I would definitely want to upgrade during my first major refit.

The Chainplate idea is more of a "what if" idea that I am floating, just to get some varying opinions from experienced sailors.

BTW, the Luders 33 is also on my list! There is one on CL right now, but it appears to be more of a project boat than I'm willing to take on right now... but priced right! Tempting!

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My Rafiki-37 (similar, but nicer than a Tayana-37 ) had its internal chainplates moved to the exterior at some point in the past (a previous owner). I don’t know if it’s changed our upwind angles much, but I really doubt it. And having them exterior, and beefier, makes me feel pretty comfortable when heading offshore.

This is my thought, as well. It would be nice to have the chainplates readily available for inspection.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by Siberianhusky

Ever sailed an Alberg? Been on one? Best description I have ever heard of one is "Its a 25 foot boat you pay 30 foot fees for". Wet, uncomfortable, small on the inside, tender, a pig on skates has better slow speed handling under power especially reverse.

I admit they are a pretty boat, but that is where it ends for me. There are many newer designs (still 40 or 50 years old!) that are much better boats for what you want to do.
Good friend has one that is in the slip right across from my boat, spent plenty of time on it in the last 10 years. You either love them or hate them. I make no apologies for which side I'm on.
Spend some time on one before you get to excited.

Husky, I have not. I am somewhat limited in my boat selection, as I can't afford a larger blue water boat. The ones in my price range are exceedingly rare when compared to Alberg 30 hulled boats. My preference would be to get something in the 32-35' range, and I am looking into a few of those as well.

Out of curiosity, what sort of boat are you sailing that makes the Alberg seem so bad?

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by salfarina

Hello WingRyder - Your love of the old Albergs, Pearsons, Bristols, etc is quite understandable - they were some of the finest vessels ever produced!! Moving the chainplates may involve spreader issues, as the spreaders are rather precisely designed to lead the cap shrouds straight down. I'm no expert, however, there is a fellow who specializes in rebuilding/refitting Albergs and he's posted a vast amount of video's on You Tube as "atomvoyager". I'm sure you can glean much from his You Tube site and if you contact him (via the site or his website "Atomvoyages") he can probably advise you.


Good luck and fair winds!

Atomvoyages! LOL. I have been lurking his site for a few months now! James Baldwin is amazing. His knowledge of classics is astounding. He is one of the key reasons that I have been considering a 30ish foot blue water cruiser as my first boat.

IIRC, much of my curiosity and concern about this was when he was discussing the inadequate factory chainplates during an A30 refit. He reinforced the fiberglass knees and added larger chainplates, but he did NOT. change their location. I have not contacted him on this subject, but I have sent him an email. I would love to drive up to Georgia and meet him in person. I realize that he's a VERY busy guy. But I have, as of yet, to hear back from him.

He is currently specializing in refitting boats with a swing-up outboard, contained within the lazerette. That is something that also appeals to me, as I don't know how much patience or $$$ I would have to deal with an old diesel inboard... but I'll save that for another post. lol

He has never mentioned doing external chainplates (that I can recall), it's just and idea I had. You are most certainly correct about the geometry of the spreaders, but since the chainplates are already pretty close to the hull, it seems to me, the effect would be minimal.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by James S

When I did my refit I pulled my chainplates...To my surprise a full 3rd of the bolts were broken... I can't believe I didn't loose the rig..BTW this was after a 10 month trip from Vancouver BC to Beirut Lebanon...
I don't think I would feel safe on a boat that I couldn't insure the integrity of the bolts..
If you are set on that boat and after considering some of the valid points others have mentioned.. Id say move them.

That is terrifying and could have ended up in disaster! There are so many variables when looking for a boat. I would love to be able to buy a Westsail 32, and call it a day. But I can't afford one, and there weren't many built. They are few and far between, and expensive. Boats designed with external chainplates are fairly rare as well. With all other factors, my budget certainly a major one, I am trying to find a blue water capable boat that works.

Thanks for your response. Vancouver to Lebanon?!? That sounds like an amazing adventure. Did you do a vlog? I would love to hear more about it!

[MartinR]

You can easily and safely test the chainplates by pulling them to 40% of wire breaking load.
Tests the rigging wires also:-). Maximum load during sailing is normally 25% on a cruising boat.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by laika

I externalized the lowers on my Vancouver a few years back. The original deck mounted lowers were glassed in and long overdue for replacement. Moving them outward a few inches also gave me a bit more sidedeck clearance which was great. I beefed up the topside area inside the hull where the new chainplates would go, used solid backing plates, and got the blessing of a reputable rigger before going through with it.

I agree with some other posters tho..Maybe it'll be a good idea for the boat you end up with, maybe not? Only speaking for myself, I undertook the project because it was time for new chainplates on my particular boat.

There are far too many things to throw time and money at if you're really trying!

To the OP

I would add the Vancouver 27 to your list - terrific little boat to go anywhere. I was looking for one built in Canada for a long time, extremely rare to find one for sale. The ones built in the UK are very nice but priced out of range.