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Old 23-02-2017, 07:29   #31
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

Capt Tom,
thanks for the offer. Have been researching the bejesus on the web-they have a lot of happy users-particulalry fishermen in Alaska. There is a good manual translation done by a heater outfit in the UK. Will keep everyone posted. Can't stress how much I appreciate this forums help!
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:01   #32
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

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Capt Tom,
thanks for the offer. Have been researching the bejesus on the web-they have a lot of happy users-particulalry fishermen in Alaska. There is a good manual translation done by a heater outfit in the UK. Will keep everyone posted. Can't stress how much I appreciate this forums help!
Thanks for keeping us posted. I'd be very interested in that English manual. I did the best I could, but can't be sure nothing got lost in the translation(s).

Still wondering what "flipped" means, in reference to the GF. Flipped out? Flipped the plans upside down? Not to pry... we all understand these things happen!
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:20   #33
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

Flipped means hour long, dark new England winter changed my partners personality. As a result, living on a boat in the winteris a much happier prospect. Just need to get the heat worked out
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:00   #34
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

We hit 11 hours of daylight soon, things are looking up!

I never really got "SAD" (Seasonal Adjustment Disorder) but I know it's talked about a lot. Sometimes called "cabin fever." Whatever you call it, it's real, and it can be a serious bummer. Good luck with the liveaboard plans!
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:23   #35
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

I think you may be complicating a simple issue. If your concern is dockside heat, put in a space heater or 2. Cost under $60. If you want to go upscale try something like my Cruisair Dometic for less than $3k. However, you still will need power to run it so add a generator complete with operating costs.You just do not have that much space to heat unless your are in Maine or Alaska and need a 70 deg heat differential. If that is the case, then relocate!
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Old 23-02-2017, 11:29   #36
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

Dave 22, I am in New Hampshire it gets cold here minus 10sometimes
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Old 23-02-2017, 12:45   #37
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

We have a Webasto Airtop 3500 put in by the PO. Probably just on the edge for this size of boat (40'), but it works well and we are in the PNW. Maybe you can get away with a smaller size than the one that covers the recommendation since you are through the worst of the winter? Just thinking out loud here; don't know if you are mooring again next year.

I just looked on the local craigslist here and ran across this ad:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bpo/6009338364.html

It is for an Espar D2. $760 for one; without heating pipe which is not expensive. They are coming from a dealer in Alaska, but I'd bet even with shipping you could get 2 for under 2K. I'd check the local craigslists where you are for similar items.
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Old 23-02-2017, 12:58   #38
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

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Docket great post thank you. Hydronic would be easier on the 365. Routing the ducting for an air heater is going to be tough, but hydronic drinks power and is several magnitudes more expensive.probably will be on the dock for a couple of months but then I'm out on the mooring.
Are you sure hydronic uses so much more power, comparing like sizes? Other than a small water pump, there's not really any difference in what you have to power.

Also I doubt such a huge cost difference if you use only one fan coil. Less than double I would say. I think it might make sense.

Also, pay attention to Uncivilized's post above, which gives a different perspective and makes a lot of sense. There are a number of disadvantages to pot heaters, including the hole in the deck, but there are some pluses - less noise, less or zero power consumption, vastly cheaper maintenance, cheery glow through the window. Wouldn't work on my boat, but might be a good solution on a P365.

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Old 23-02-2017, 13:03   #39
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

My Espar system is old...30 years old. It's in an orange metal casing. I lived aboard at the dock for three winters in Annapolis, and had two oil filled radiators going basically full time during the coldest months. It's not Boston, but there were certainly cold snaps in the single digits. I had my thermostat set so that the Espar kicked on when it got too cold for the radiators to manage (electricity was free, diesel was not). Away from the dock, it has kept me warm these past few months but heading south in December it didn't have to work as hard. Can't help with sizing the unit but I would go with too big vs. too small. I'm not sold on two units...expensive and more complex, more power/fuel usage. But it gives you redundancy.

I'll be taking my headliner down throughout the boat soon for a deck refit. There's about a 3/4" gap between the panels and the coach roof and it's going to get as many layers of this as will fit:



Would probably be one day's work in most boats. Should make a big difference in the winter AND even more importantly for me, in the summer.

As someone noted, if you go diesel heat, be careful to install it so that you can get to the igniter/fuel jet. It will carbon up periodically and you'll need to clean it.

Also as noted, the ducting, particularly close to the unit, can get VERY hot. It's a good idea to insulate it both to protect what's around it as well as make it more efficient. Found that out after it cooked my siphon loop vent hose which was laying close above it.

Even if it's more trouble it's worth it to put in a "Y" connector and have at least two vents with adjustable louvers. You'll also need a return duct back to the unit through which it will pull cabin air, so factor that in your design.

Put your exhaust thru-hull as high as reasonably possible, and make sure it has a watertight cap that you can put on.
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Old 23-02-2017, 13:09   #40
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

As it stands now I am probably going with the Russian model the heater itself can be bought for $600 or so and then there are the miscellaneous fittings but they don't have to be very expensive plenty available on flea bay. For the modest investment if I got a couple seasons out of that I'd be pleased. The hydronic units are too expensive for the short term
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Old 23-02-2017, 14:52   #41
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

I can't comment on anything but the Espar forced air... diesel fired... D3L discontinued and the Airtronic 4.

The D3L died after about 10 years or so. I replaced the unit used the old ducts and replaced the exhaust flue hose.

I do not live on board in LIS in the winter. I did ONE season and had to supplement it with a 12v cheapy ceramic heater with a blower. Together they were fine in a very cold winter. On a mooring i'd need more power.

The parts cost me between $1,500 and $2,000. It gets a lot of use and I stay on board until November.

Living on a mooring DOES mean a lot of taxiing back and forth. You will have to top up the diesel for the heater.

The forced air is dry and fast and probably more comfortable than hydronic radiators... but I believe there are also blowers in hydronic systems circulating hot air.

The Espar is hi tech and German engineering. I can recommend it but have nothing to say about other systems in Southern New England.
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Old 23-02-2017, 15:08   #42
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

It's so common sensical so as to not need mentioning, but if at all possible, install one or more fans which derive their power from warm air rising. As in warm air coming off of one's heater. They do an amazing job of circulating the heat. Even just the tiny ones do an amazing job in supersized household rooms. Plus, of course, 12v fans help too.
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Old 23-02-2017, 15:10   #43
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

The diesel forced air are good. Sometimes it's just best to bite the bullet and get it done well. I have heard there are units (Espar or Webasto?) for Semi trucks that are cheaper new or used. Not dug into it though. Catalytic propane heat is done in RV's and works well. There are Japanese free standing diesel heaters by Toyoset. Basically like a space heater version of the expensive marine units. I had one on a 44 live aboard in Seattle. It worked very well after some initial problems. I ran it on Kerosene instead. Had it on the main bulkhead so the outlet nozzle blew right under the table.
There are kerosene free standing heaters, you have to trust yourself to run it properly with ventilation so you don't asphixiate (sp?) yourself though.
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Old 24-02-2017, 12:55   #44
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

Just an update, placed on order for a Planar 44D-12 that is rated for 13,000 BTUs. Bought from an outfit in BC. Has a 2 year warranty. The merchant was knowlegeable and helpful-understood the design issues specific to boats very well. Have not ordered the outlet vents, T's and duct hose as I wanted to get it in hand and mounted first. At least half as expensive as a Webasto or Eber. I like the fact that it uses a brushless fan.

Want to thank everyone once again for the helpful advice.

Will report back on my experience after install.
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Old 24-02-2017, 15:59   #45
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Re: Moving Aboard in New England Need Heat

It wouldn't be a bad thing to give a shout-out with the seller's name. A helpful vendor is a good thing to know about.
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