Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-12-2017, 04:04   #16
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: boat Tahiti, us - in the Corona Sh...
Boat: Elan 410
Posts: 1,631
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

"...others insisted that brass and bronze were the same thing,..."
always love statements like this! in a flash you know everything about the persons competence which saves you many unnecessary questions & possible soul-searching if you can believe him/her!
__________________

__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 13:05   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,129
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

One might think so, but sometimes it just tells you what field they are coming from.

Brass "should" just be copper and zinc. Except, "Admiralty Brass" has one percent of tin added to it. It is by name a BRASS. But wait, how's that different from "Admiralty Bronze" then? And doesn't the added tin make is bronze not brass?

It only gets worse from there.

Besides, any real yachtsman would have titanium thruhulls made up. Bespoke fittings, streamlined, lightweight, durable, don't bother me about the cost, I pay other people to run around with numbers. ;-)
__________________

hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 13:15   #18
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whitby, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 4,202
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
One might think so, but sometimes it just tells you what field they are coming from.

Brass "should" just be copper and zinc. Except, "Admiralty Brass" has one percent of tin added to it. It is by name a BRASS. But wait, how's that different from "Admiralty Bronze" then? And doesn't the added tin make is bronze not brass?
No, the driving factor is the zinc content. Admiralty brass .... often also called Admiralty bronze ... just meaningless nomenclature, it;s the zinc content that counts.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 16:28   #19
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: CS27
Posts: 2,200
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
No, the driving factor is the zinc content. Admiralty brass .... often also called Admiralty bronze ... just meaningless nomenclature, it;s the zinc content that counts.
Manganese bronze which is the common metal used for propellers has up to 39% zinc. Groco and comparable seacocks are 85-5-5-5 bronze which has 5% zinc.
mitiempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 17:06   #20
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whitby, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 4,202
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Manganese bronze which is the common metal used for propellers has up to 39% zinc. Groco and comparable seacocks are 85-5-5-5 bronze which has 5% zinc.
Again, meaningless nomenclature, manganese bronze falls clearly into the brass class as defined by it's zinc content.

Aluminum has many grade and names as does steel, stainless steel, bronze and almost every other metal and should be thought of for general discussion as such. "Brass" is a generic terms is bronze. How many times have you heard the term "marine grade aluminum" ..... absolutely meaningless unless a specific application is brought into the discussion.

Do a little research into "classes" of the metal of your choice.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 20:42   #21
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: CS27
Posts: 2,200
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Again, meaningless nomenclature, manganese bronze falls clearly into the brass class as defined by it's zinc content.

Aluminum has many grade and names as does steel, stainless steel, bronze and almost every other metal and should be thought of for general discussion as such. "Brass" is a generic terms is bronze. How many times have you heard the term "marine grade aluminum" ..... absolutely meaningless unless a specific application is brought into the discussion.

Do a little research into "classes" of the metal of your choice.
Manganese bronze is not meaningless nomenclature, but a specific family of bronze, used for propellers as it is easily machined. It's high zinc content is the reason anodes on prop or nearby shaft are important - if they aren't there the prop is the anode.
https://www.dura-barms.com/bronze/ma...nze/c67300.cfm

85-5-5-5 bronze is unlikely to have much issue in salt water and is used for better quality through hulls and seacocks. These can last for decades.
Again a specific type of bronze.
Bronze Alloy Charts, Leaded Tin Bronzes | Advance Bronze
Scroll down - top of the 3rd chart.

I would much sooner have a refrigeration cooling seacock made of the latter than a high zinc alloy. Unfortunately with Isotherm there is no option to the supplied through hull as far as I know.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IM-3251-SP-AS.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	35.7 KB
ID:	160030   Click image for larger version

Name:	thruhullfit.JPG
Views:	37
Size:	30.0 KB
ID:	160031  

mitiempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 10:07   #22
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: boat Tahiti, us - in the Corona Sh...
Boat: Elan 410
Posts: 1,631
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

the wholesaler/distributor I work for supplys an upmarket (by their own telling...) OEM with Indel/Isotherm SP fridges. I have not heard of any problems with the thru-hulls (usually lands on my desk...). there is a large anode protecting them too.
"brass " & "bronze" are, despite both encompassing a wide range of alloys generally not meaningless terms: an alloy of metals far apart on the galvanic scale (copper & zinc) is on principle much more susceptible to "dissolve" itself than an alloy of metals adjacent to each other (copper & tin) on the galvanic scale
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	galvanic-series-chart.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	168.6 KB
ID:	160045  
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 12:58   #23
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,129
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

"Contrary to what some say, water cooling is superior in many installs especially for "
Pete-
I'd put the question (water/vs/air) as analogous to someone saying "Well, just use kerosene lanterns and you won't have electrical system problems!"

The air cooling is simple cheap engineering, which may make it more reliable because it is simple and can be done cheaply.
Ah, yes, but there are reasons most of us choose not to use kerosene lanterns at home or aboard. The difficulty of sourcing good smokeless lamp oil and proper wicks being the least of them.(G)

Spend the night lost in the woods at 50F and you'll be cold and stiff in the morning. Spend that same night lost at sea in 50F *water* and that incredibly ineffective water cooling will ensure you are long dead from hypothermia. The physics is that simple. Good designed, engineering, implementation, manufacturing? A bit harder to find, especially on a budget.
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 16:14   #24
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Toronto On Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 736
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Contrary to what some say, water cooling is superior in many installs especially for "
Pete-
I'd put the question (water/vs/air) as analogous to someone saying "Well, just use kerosene lanterns and you won't have electrical system problems!"

The air cooling is simple cheap engineering, which may make it more reliable because it is simple and can be done cheaply.
Ah, yes, but there are reasons most of us choose not to use kerosene lanterns at home or aboard. The difficulty of sourcing good smokeless lamp oil and proper wicks being the least of them.(G)

Spend the night lost in the woods at 50F and you'll be cold and stiff in the morning. Spend that same night lost at sea in 50F *water* and that incredibly ineffective water cooling will ensure you are long dead from hypothermia. The physics is that simple. Good designed, engineering, implementation, manufacturing? A bit harder to find, especially on a budget.
Systems designed around a capillary tube to control refrigerant flow are sensitive to saturated liquid temperature . Systems that are designed around a TXV are not nearly as sensitive . Also such a design is not limited to condenser volume . But TXV systems are more expensive to build and there for more expensive to buy . If you are on a buget, a captube system makes sense .

Regards John
Typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 17:14   #25
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 405
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine View Post
Systems designed around a capillary tube to control refrigerant flow are sensitive to saturated liquid temperature .
Systems that are designed around a TXV are not nearly as sensitive . Also such a design is not limited to condenser volume . But TXV systems are more expensive to build and there for more expensive to buy . If you are on a buget, a captube system makes sense .

Regards John
Exactly John, and that is why the Ozefridge system controls condenser temperature and thus head pressure, within 5C parameters. (And I believe we are the only ones in the industry doing that). This prevents over condensing in cold environs or under condensing in hotter ones. Therefore regardless of the environment the condenser temperature is within engineered range and therefore the system performance is similar with throttling optimised. Cheers OzePete
OzePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2018, 17:01   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Panama
Boat: Woodward 47
Posts: 54
Re: Metalurgy questions Isotherm asu sp thru hull metal composition is it seaworthy?

I have that unit installed since 2009. I have only replaced the anode once in that time. It really did not need changing. I also antifoul the coil whenever possible.
__________________

fabricator-ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, isotherm, seaworthy, thru hull

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ISOTHERM ASU (BD80) dipswitch setting?? blubaju Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 08-01-2016 18:47
Isotherm ASU or Not? deepthought Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 15-08-2013 07:33
For Sale: Isotherm ASU electronic Unit BLU rnjpinz Classifieds Archive 1 12-07-2012 13:16
For Sale: Isotherm ASU Electronic Unit rnjpinz Classifieds Archive 0 03-10-2011 14:41
Problem with Isotherm 3700 ASU Fridge richardhula Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 27-04-2010 12:33

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.