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Canibul · 16-03-2014, 19:05

I ain't even going to tell y'all the stuff I found in the way the propane lines were run in this old boat. I looked up the regs, and this installation violated just about every one that I could find. The most recently laid line was attached outside the hull, screwed to the underside of the rub rail.

Anyhow, I need to run two lines from the propane locker to two appliances, one line about 35 ft and the other 50 ft. After removing six corroded, brittle, blue colored copper gas lines from this boat already, I am loathe to replace them with more copper. It wouldn't be hugely difficult to do. Just heavily difficult. I can handle that part. But I am wondering if people are using the rubber gas lines, like the short ones that come with BBQ grills. I know I can order it by the foot, but is there any reason not to use it in fifty foot lengths? It would be secured inside a chase the length of the boat, no salt water, no UV. Going to a Force 10 stove and a Force 10 heater. That's pretty low pressure stuff, I think.

ElGatoGordo · 16-03-2014, 19:10

Pretty long line, I wouldn't use that much flex. But that's me, never had a boat that long lol

I'll watch to see what others say. But WOW! Outside the hull? that IS nuts!!!

J Clark H356 · 16-03-2014, 19:41

My 2003 H356 has rubber hoses that are now 11 years old. I had to replace a pigtail that leaked and am going to replace the line from the regulator to the Force 10 when I get back from my cruise. The old pigtail had lost all it's flexibility.

**Jim Cate** · 16-03-2014, 20:09

Rules and regs vary from place to place, and that may impact your decision. In many parts of Oz, the use of flexible lines is restricted to the bit between the tank and the reg, and the bit between the last bit of rigid copper and the gimbaled stove or BBQ. IIRC, back in Calif before I left it was pretty much the opposite... go figger!

But my view is that if a short run of flex is ok, what is wrong with a long run if it is physically secure and protected from chafe? Assuming proper quality materials are used, of course. The remote operated solenoid mostly eliminates the risk of a boat fire breaching the flex, and the freedom from worry about fatigue and corrosion is good.
The long copper runs on our Oz-compliant boat worry me, but so far, so good.

So, my answer to your query is... seems ok to me, but checking your local rules seems prudent, especially if you have hull insurance.

Cheers,

Jim

bornyesterday · 16-03-2014, 20:18

I'm going to have to address the same issues soon. My butane system is 9 years old, professionally fitted, boat was MCA coded but isn't now.

8mm. copper pipe has been used with brass bulkhead fittings - i.e. joints - at the steel bulkheads. The copper pipe shows the same blue corrosion products as yours and I don't trust it. One 2 foot section is near the bottom of a 4 foot deep, completely sealed cockpit locker where it could easily be damaged and a gas escape could go unnoticed.

I would much prefer a single length of hose, adequately supported and sleeved by sections of larger reinforced hose in exposed areas and where it passes through sealed holes in the bulkheads to the isolation valve below my stove.
Stainless mesh reinforced hose from the valve to the stove as is usual.
It almost certainly wouldn't comply with regulations but I'm thinking about doing it anyway. I'm convinced it would be better than using copper except for the non-compliance issue but I'm ready to be persuaded otherwise.

What do you all think?

fisherman.ben · 16-03-2014, 20:20

I have 1 15ft and 1 4ft sections of stainless covered flex hose for my stove and bbq, it cost a little more, but I figured it was worth it. (5 bucks a foot, got it at r.i. engine, and I think moye works makes them too) might be a little better than just the rubber hose for the length you need. I have been thinking about a diesel stove/oven, but have heard that they make anything you cook taste like diesel, and then the boat smells. not sure how true that is, anyone got one?

mitiempo · 16-03-2014, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fisherman.ben

I have been thinking about a diesel stove/oven, but have heard that they make anything you cook taste like diesel, and then the boat smells. not sure how true that is, anyone got one?

A proper diesel stove will not smell or impart any taste to the food. Wallas is one good example. The more common Dickinson may smell a bit in the boat as it is a natural draft burner but shouldn't impart a taste to food cooked on it.

To the op

As long as the hose is propane approved there should be no problem properly installed and supported.

robert sailor · 16-03-2014, 21:34

I had a combo of original cooper and flex, I removed it all and installed continuous new flex.

Canibul · 17-03-2014, 05:30

Thanks for the replies. It all sounds reasonable to use hose instead of the copper tubing. I would assume the major thing to look for going forward is the typical eventual loss of flex in the rubber coating, so that when it starts getting brittle back at the tank end it's time to replace it again.

I'm also going to look into the diesel stoves, but I just put three new stainless burner kits on this Force 10 and cleaned it up and going to go with that for a while. Getting some parts for it seems to be an issue, though. 20 year old stove on a 30 year old boat etc.

If you know the regs, imagine this corroded blue colored copper line, attached to the outside of the hull, going into an enclosed area around the stove. At the end of the copper, there were two T connections, put together with a metric barrel connector. The T's were not metric. Coming from the T's were three other lines. hanging in the middle of this mess was an rusty old hardware store variety AC electrical outlet box, with a small fridge in the next cabinet just plugged into it. A good yank on the fridge supply line and I would have some nice sparks in a closed area in the galley with 7 brass connections. The fittings were pressure, instead of flared, with little collars on the copper tubing.
No shut off valve other than the stove controls. And the Force 10 was sitting directly on solid plywood cabinet bottom, no source of air flow, and the bottom of the stove directly supported by a combustible.

I'm not worried about the installation at all, re: chafing and support. The more I dig into this old boat, the better I like Tom Lack and less I like the PO.

I just looked up the CSST ( corrugated stainless steel) hoses, and they come prefab with a connector on each end. I like that. I can get the lengths I need figured out, but have a question about diameter. Obviously the hose is larger OD than the copper it's going to replace. How important is the inside diameter? These stoves don't need a huge volume of gas flow. Can I get away with 1/2" hose?

robert sailor · 17-03-2014, 05:45

When your going through bulk heads just make sure you have a good rubber/plastic grommet so you don't get any chafe.

Neeltje · 17-03-2014, 05:55

This probably has nothing to do with the price of eggs, but unless things have changed recently, French building codes strictly prohibit the use of cooper in gas lines (propane or natural). They require steel lines. They also require that the rubber appliance hook-up lines be changed periodically (I think it's every 2 years).

Once again, this applies to housing, not to boats, but it's something to think about if safety is an issue.

Jacques

Canibul · 17-03-2014, 07:38

I think steel lines on a boat are probably a very bad idea. Of course I live on an island where steel automobile brake lines rust through in about two years. Same environment as a boat, just without the motion.

Neeltje · 17-03-2014, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canibul

I think steel lines on a boat are probably a very bad idea. Of course I live on an island where steel automobile brake lines rust through in about two years. Same environment as a boat, just without the motion.

You're probably right. I think they impose steel to make hidden lines harder to poke through when you're hanging pictures on the wall.

How about stainless? Sure, it ain't cheap, but neither is gas-quality rubber hose, and you'd only have to do it once.

robert sailor · 17-03-2014, 08:01

The best gas lines in homes are copper. Make sure if you use rubber that you buy the stuff made for gas/propane because they slowly eat rubber and the proper stuff has a special liner in the hose to prevent this.