Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

[gjordan]

Robert, the reason IMHO that I recommend an inboard is my experience cruising a similar size boat, first with an inboard, next with an outboard, and finally with no motor. I removed the inboard because it was worn out,was physically too large for the engine compartment, and weighed about 5 times what the inboard the boat was designed for. A Volvo MD1 was put in where a Vire was originally designed for. I did 2 trips down and up the California coast, first with the sometimes running diesel, next with a British Seagull. The problem with the prop coming out of the water was nothing compared to the engine going underwater while running. It was almost useless except for calm waters. My third cruise, SF_Mexico_Polynesia-Hawaii, I started with the British Seaslug and after too many dunkings, it was scrap so I did without. An outboard in a well, is much less suseptable to dunking or the prop coming out of the water, but the ones I have seen always seem to be in the way. All things are a compromise, but I think the smallest, most reliable inboard that can be fitted, will make for much nicer cruising. Just another 2 cents worth. ____Grant.

[trapoc]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Its a 25 foot boat, put an outboard on it and call it a day, easy to fix. Yes it comes out of the water in bigger seas but a good sailing 25 footer won't need an engine most times. Set up some solar panels to do the battery charging.

Robert sailor I really would like to have a propeller that stays in the water and was hoping to install a wind vane steering system along with my AH tiller pilot. That would use the space dedicated to the engine mount. Someone suggested a motor well but that would require moving the rudder and I'm not prepared to do that. Another person suggested hydraulic drive I think I am going to check that out. Thanks Charley

[robert sailor]

Your on a 25 foot boat, use a simple hand operated windless and find something light weight, forget about electric's on a boat that size. Figure out where to store a decent amount of anchor rode (at least 200+ feet probably a mix of 1/4" chain and 1/2" nylon rode) I'll assume with that small boat you can use the shallow anchorages. Do whatever you can to keep the weight down. The design you are working on and the one you chose is a racer/cruiser light displacement boat and its not going to do well overloaded to the gills. If you wanted to carry loads you should have chosen a heavy displacement design. Carefully consider every thing you put on that boat and keep it light as it will also add to its strength at sea as well as its sailing ability.

[trapoc]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Robert, the reason IMHO that I recommend an inboard is my experience cruising a similar size boat, first with an inboard, next with an outboard, and finally with no motor. I removed the inboard because it was worn out,was physically too large for the engine compartment, and weighed about 5 times what the inboard the boat was designed for. A Volvo MD1 was put in where a Vire was originally designed for. I did 2 trips down and up the California coast, first with the sometimes running diesel, next with a British Seagull. The problem with the prop coming out of the water was nothing compared to the engine going underwater while running. It was almost useless except for calm waters. My third cruise, SF_Mexico_Polynesia-Hawaii, I started with the British Seaslug and after too many dunkings, it was scrap so I did without. An outboard in a well, is much less suseptable to dunking or the prop coming out of the water, but the ones I have seen always seem to be in the way. All things are a compromise, but I think the smallest, most reliable inboard that can be fitted, will make for much nicer cruising. Just another 2 cents worth. ____Grant.

Grant I think your right. I too have seen outboards get dunked. I am going to check into trading my 3 cylinder kubota mini for a 2 cylinder mini. I am also going to check into hydraulic drive systems. Thanks Charley

[trapoc]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Your on a 25 foot boat, use a simple hand operated windless and find something light weight, forget about electric's on a boat that size. Figure out where to store a decent amount of anchor rode (at least 200+ feet probably a mix of 1/4" chain and 1/2" nylon rode) I'll assume with that small boat you can use the shallow anchorages. Do whatever you can to keep the weight down. The design you are working on and the one you chose is a racer/cruiser light displacement boat and its not going to do well overloaded to the gills. If you wanted to carry loads you should have chosen a heavy displacement design. Carefully consider every thing you put on that boat and keep it light as it will also add to its strength at sea as well as its sailing ability.

What would you consider the minimum amount of chain needed. I have only had 20ft of chain on any of my boats so far. Thanks Charley

[robert sailor]

I don't disagree with Grant that an inboard is better but if you mount a 6-8hp outboard on a bracket that allows the engine to be lifted up, well out of the water you should do OK but if you want to spend the money and use the space you best find a very light inboard. I see the engine as nothing more than getting in and out of a harbor or motoring in very protected waters. You could even take it off when sailing offshore and store it below. Saves you the space of inboard built in fuel tanks.
A windvane is a good idea if you are sailing long distance offshore, the problem today is finding a small/lighter one for a boat like yours. Its been awhile since I've checked on them so they may be available.

[robert sailor]

I like all chain rode but its probably not doable on your boat because of weight in the bow. I would have at least 50 feet of chain and you best have a good chafe protection setup and stick to shallow anchorages.

[trapoc]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I don't disagree with Grant that an inboard is better but if you mount a 6-8hp outboard on a bracket that allows the engine to be lifted up, well out of the water you should do OK but if you want to spend the money and use the space you best find a very light inboard. I see the engine as nothing more than getting in and out of a harbor or motoring in very protected waters. You could even take it off when sailing offshore and store it below. Saves you the space of inboard built in fuel tanks.
A windvane is a good idea if you are sailing long distance offshore, the problem today is finding a small/lighter one for a boat like yours. Its been awhile since I've checked on them so they may be available.

Robert Sailor the idea of a small outboard that could be used on the boat and on my tender sounds good, if it were to be used on both I don't see it being more then 4hp what do you think? And then there's the engine mount dilemma for the sailboat. I went and measured a 4hp Johnson outboard and my kubota super mini and the outboard is considerably larger. Now I have to add my heat exchanger ,altenator , and starter which makes it weigh considerably more. The 3cyl Kubota is 12x14x20 inches insize and if I trade it for the 2cyl I should lose another 3inches off the 14 measurement that still leaves the weight issue? I need to figure out how to put a motorwell in this boat. Thanks Charley

[jump12k]

Originally Posted by trapoc

I thank you for your support you must be a very generous person to live with. Thanks again Charley

Oh , i fully support you!!! Cant wait for the video!!

[Dos Gatos]

The manufacturer or designer should list dry weight vs displacement. The difference is what you can add and still be within the design scope.

Here's a guy on facebook. Went sailing in a San Juan 24

https://www.facebook.com/rimas.meleshyus

Some commentary about it on SA.

Sailing around the world in a San Juan 24 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

[gjordan]

Trapoc, as far as weight goes, you might look into laminating up cored bulkheads instead of the 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch marine ply that was mentioned somewhere in this thread. Marine ply is great, but it can amount to a lot of weight. It might take more time, but I think you could save a chunk of weight and still have good strength with cored panels. The comments about anchors is accurate. My 26 footer came with 180 foot of 5/16 chain and a 25lb CQR. Yes that is way overkill, but I slept good. 1/4in chain would have been fine, but the 5/16 was there when I bought it. so I used it. On my next 2 boats I used 50 or 60 foot of chain and the rest nylon. It was OK, but I was never as comfortable as when all chain. Gary Mull boats tend to be light, so you may not have the option of all that chain. ____Grant.

[laika]

The cored bulkhead idea is a great one. Had not ever heard of/considered that before.

Check out the Norvane windvane: NORVANE Self-Steering Wind Vane. Stainless steel, servo-pendulum. Powerful, sturdy and reliable for sailboats 20’ to 60’
I bought one last year for my 27'. Made by a small shop out of CA for about half the price of a Monitor. Lighter but still very well made and with a mount sure to fit your boat. If you've got more money, you might also consider the hydrovane. About twice the price though (roughly $6000).

[laika]

I agree with others about keeping the weight off. You really should take a hard look at everything you bring onboard, particularly electrical. I cruise on / live and work out of a small boat and things start to get cluttery pretty fast. IN my experience, a small sailboat is a dream to wake up on when things are clean and open and a nightmare when dirty and cluttered. It's only when things are cluttered that I want a bigger boat.

It's also pretty tough to find a good place to fit solar panels on a pocket cruiser, particularly any big enough to power much more than led lights and low draw fans reliably. I have never seen a generator on a boat your size, but I suppose since you have a clean slate in front of you you could fit it somewhere if it were a high enough priority for you. It's going to take up more precious space though and require more fuel being stored onboard.

Take a peek at the Atom Voyages site if you want a dose of good spartan common sense advice and many worthwhile improvement projects as it relates to cruising on a small boat: Atom Voyages - Improvement Projects

[Adelie]

To comment on two threads of thought simultaneously:

If you want a light marine inboard consider a Faryman, yes they are still in business. 64kg (141lb), 7hp including basic alternator, tranny, fuel pump but not exhaust.
http://www.farymann.com/engines.php?page=18wMarine

Alternatively go with the 4hp outboard and get a "Mr. Vane" self steering gear. That gear will mount under some motor mounts. Also it is the lightest on the market currently. I do not have an opinion on its quality.
http://mrvane.com/?q=super_light_wei..._self-steering

Building your own vane gear is also a possibility.


Regarding anchoring systems:
1) For a boat that size you don't need a windlass unless you are over 75yr old. You do however need chain pawl/stopper, this lets you pull the chain portion in while sitting on deck and allows you to stop and rest if you need to without losing ground so to speak.

2) The smallest galvanized anchor chain on the market is 1/4". As I understand it smaller cant be hot dipped which is what you have to have for saltwater, electroplated just doesn't last. There is an alternative, 3/16" stainless and it's similarly priced to 1/4" high test. I've got a chart that interpolates the ABYC anchor loads, for your boat in 42kt winds expect 100b loads at worst. For your size boat the 3/16 work just fine in the Caribbean.

3) Anchors. Here's the bare minimum I would carry:
1 general purpose anchor (CQR,Bruce Supreme Rocna . . .) whatever size is recommended for your boat go up at least one size. If you are in the top 1/3 of the range go up 2 sizes, if in the bottom 1/3 one size up is enough. In the middle third the choice depends on your risk tolerance.
1 aluminum fluke anchor (Fortress, Manson, whatever) Get the biggest one you think you can handle from a dinghy. This is for really soft bottoms when fluke area is the most important consideration. When you have prior warning of really bad weather you can set multiple anchors and this is the one that will probably have the best holding, depending on the bottom so it will get set in the direction of maximum expected winds. And if heavy weather comes up unexpectedly and you want to set out an extra anchor it is sized for handling from the dinghy.

[robert sailor]

The outboard can be mounted to one side of the stern and may allow room for your vane, if its not too big and yes a 4hp would drive your boat in light wind conditions as long as you kept it light. This will really make things simple as to work on it you can pull it off and go ashore. Rig up a simple stern arch to carry solar panels or put a solid ss tube in place of the lifeline from the stern pulpit to the first stanchion on both sides and then mount your panels there, they can be folded under way. I prefer the arch as it can be used for storing stuff but watch your heights as you don't want to get in the way of the vane.