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AiniA · 14-09-2013, 04:06

I think you will do better to find a boat, of whatever size, that has already had most of the work done already. A handyman's special rarely ends up being a bargain by the time everything is done. A 50 footer Ian a very big boat. My experience is that the average rtw boat is about 45' which is what we have. People with smaller boats are not having less fun.

scoobert · 14-09-2013, 04:07

45' is a nice size, and can still be managed by one person if there is an injury, but still, if i found a 55' in need of major teak work, i would be all over it.

Mimsy · 14-09-2013, 04:26

We are refitting a 42 foot boat and I would say our money and time spent will be extraordinarily close to the numbers posted by Stevens 47. I think people stating 20-30% of purchase price is not the case on boats older than 10 years old.

**Hud3** · 14-09-2013, 04:31

critter,

You might want to check out DSDman's project.

Welcome to CF. Hope you enjoy it here.

**skipmac** · 14-09-2013, 06:00

I would have to ask why these boats interiors are stripped out. If because of sinking, partial sinking, or some other major water damage event be very careful. The damage can go far beyond cosmetic interior damage into areas that could be structural and a huge pain (as in lots of time and/or money) to repair. Don't forget the very true wisdom in the saying, some boats even if you get them free are too expensive.

Some biggies to look for

1. Wet decks. In almost all boats the decks are a sandwich construction, fiberglass top and bottom with some sort of core in between. Most cores are plywood or balsa. Everywhere on the deck something is attached there will be holes through the fiberglass into the core and if not properly sealed will leak water which will spread and eventually cause rot and delamination. If bad it can make an older boat not worth repairing.

2. Bulkheads or as you say, the walls. These are structural elements in the boat and should be firmly attached to the inside of the boat hull. If loose or rotted another big, big repair.

3. Engine. If the old one is in bad shape you can replace it but in a 50' boat a new one could easily be over $20,000. You can go used or rebuild the old but....

barnakiel · 14-09-2013, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by critter

(...) We have found there are many that have good hulls, engines, and decent sails/rigging, but everything else inside has been gutted or has got to go. (...)

???

(Our context: boat was +20 y.o when we got her 10 year ago. Now 30+ y.o and a rtw under her belt. This boat was used extensively before we got her. We spent maybe 10% of the purchase price on refit/outfit prior to departing).

I think if you find a boat that has good engine, sails/rigging while at the same time interior needs replacement, then this boat is very old and had her engine / rigging replaced somewhere along the way.

If your target is to get a budget boat and go, I would avoid such projects. You may like to decide/discuss, at the outset, if you are into refits or into sailing. These are two separate sports.

As with all refits, there is no upper limit other than your imagination, and it always costs more than you budget for (unless you are already well versed in refitting). I normally plan at 150% of whatever cost of materials and work I can see around and I found this method to work out pretty fine for us.

My wild guess is that if I wanted to get our boat to mint condition I would spend about 200% of her present value on refits. (All this based on nearly all works done by ourselves). But we are in a small boat, and many things are 'not scalable' (read: not scalable in a linear manner).

In a recent issue of Yachting World there is a (part 1) of an article on a refit of a 46' boat. All costs/projects included. Get a copy, read, ponder.

Good luck,
b.

DiverChick71 · 14-09-2013, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

???

(Our context: boat was +20 y.o when we got her 10 year ago. Now 30+ y.o and a rtw under her belt. This boat was used extensively before we got her. We spent maybe 10% of the purchase price on refit/outfit prior to departing).

I think if you find a boat that has good engine, sails/rigging while at the same time interior needs replacement, then this boat is very old and had her engine / rigging replaced somewhere along the way.

If your target is to get a budget boat and go, I would avoid such projects. You may like to decide/discuss, at the outset, if you are into refits or into sailing. These are two separate sports.

As with all refits, there is no upper limit other than your imagination, and it always costs more than you budget for (unless you are already well versed in refitting). I normally plan at 150% of whatever cost of materials and work I can see around and I found this method to work out pretty fine for us.

My wild guess is that if I wanted to get our boat to mint condition I would spend about 200% of her present value on refits. (All this based on nearly all works done by ourselves). But we are in a small boat, and many things are 'not scalable' (read: not scalable in a linear manner).

In a recent issue of Yachting World there is a (part 1) of an article on a refit of a 46' boat. All costs/projects included. Get a copy, read, ponder.

Good luck,
b.

Very good point. Finding a boat that needs work and is actually worth fixing is a very good point also. There is an online article called "Marine Survey 101" that would be good for the OP to look at when he's looking at potential boats. Lots and lots of boats just aren't worth fixing.

I think to get my boat to "Bristol", 200% it's high BUC value IN bristol condition is a good estimate. So I'm focused on safety and comfort, since it will be our home in a couple years. But I know I'll lose money....not so much concerned about that, I guess. Just don't want to go crazy.

There is a gorgeous Vagabond 47 in Hawaii for sale for $300k. I heard rumors that the owner spent $750K on a refit.

DiverChick71 · 14-09-2013, 17:47

I meant to say WAS for sale. I haven't looked lately. I quit looking at boats for sale. :-)

barnakiel · 15-09-2013, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverChick71

(...) There is a gorgeous Vagabond 47 in Hawaii for sale for $300k. I heard rumors that the owner spent $750K on a refit.

The article in YM quotes over 320k GBP into refit of a 180k GBP boat, bringing the total of 520k GBP. Meanwhile well cared, much younger samples of same design are quoted (asking prices) at 250k at y achtworld.

Life is amazing. We all have different attitudes, means and views on value. And so that Vagabond's story rings true.

Cheers,
b.

Mimsy · 15-09-2013, 11:23

Skipmac, we did not rip out our interior as it is pristine. We did remove the forward head to open up the v-berth to be a true master cabin and that accounts for about 14,000. Everything else was just bringing systems up- bottom job, blister repair, deck repair (small areas), surprise finding of chainplate bulkheads needing a redbuild, all new plumbing, all new electrical, new deck hardware, sails and equipping.

**skipmac** · 15-09-2013, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimsy

Skipmac, we did not rip out our interior as it is pristine. We did remove the forward head to open up the v-berth to be a true master cabin and that accounts for about 14,000. Everything else was just bringing systems up- bottom job, blister repair, deck repair (small areas), surprise finding of chainplate bulkheads needing a redbuild, all new plumbing, all new electrical, new deck hardware, sails and equipping.

Sounds like your project is very similar to mine. Did a peal and seal on the bottom (blisters were just in the gel coat thank goodness), all new electrical, all new plumbing, deck repair (also small areas), new sails, new roller furling, new standing and running rigging.

Fortunately no bulkhead problems but will be replacing a lot of the teak veneer siding and the teak/holly plywood sole is shot. Also keeping most of the deck hardware but new main sheet system and a few new blocks. Also going to 4 internal halyards from 2 external.

The big ticket items were of course the sails, rigging and bottom job. These added up to $18-$19 K. New inverter/charger, frig, alternators (have a spare), pumps, wire, and tons of consumables I figure I have another $7-$8K. I am afraid to even guess how many hours but its going on three years of weekends and after work.

I've been seeing you on the forum for years as well, so any guess on how many hours/years you have into your refit?

Mimsy · 15-09-2013, 15:38

We are in year 3 of doing really heavy lifting. Have had the boat for 4.5 years, the first year and a half was us sailing her to see what we wanted/needed to change and oh yeah, we had a baby in there as well.

I shudder to think. Average time spent is 3.5 days a week. With time missed for work related travel and sanity related travel, probably comes out to 3 years worth. My husband is SUPER meticulous so someone who wasn't quite the perfectionist could probably accomplish what we have, to a lesser degree of "Bristol" in oh, maybe 2 years. *sigh* One year to go...

**skipmac** · 15-09-2013, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimsy

We are in year 3 of doing really heavy lifting. Have had the boat for 4.5 years, the first year and a half was us sailing her to see what we wanted/needed to change and oh yeah, we had a baby in there as well.

Fortunately we got the baby deal out of the way years ago. Parenting was a beautiful thing, love her to death but now she's off on her own and we sure do love the freedom. No empty next syndrome here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimsy

My husband is SUPER meticulous so someone who wasn't quite the perfectionist could probably accomplish what we have, to a lesser degree of "Bristol" in oh, maybe 2 years. *sigh* One year to go...

I fight that tendency in myself, with limited success. Had to force myself not to put a few more coats of epoxy on the top of the inside of the frig box behind the evaporator. Why put a mirror finish on something that will never again see the light of day? Because it's there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimsy

We are in year 3 of doing really heavy lifting. Have had the boat for 4.5 years, the first year and a half was us sailing her to see what we wanted/needed to change and oh yeah, we had a baby in there as well.

I shudder to think. Average time spent is 3.5 days a week. With time missed for work related travel and sanity related travel, probably comes out to 3 years worth. My husband is SUPER meticulous so someone who wasn't quite the perfectionist could probably accomplish what we have, to a lesser degree of "Bristol" in oh, maybe 2 years. *sigh* One year to go...

critter · 30-12-2014, 11:46

Greetings, Everyone.

I know it's been a long time and this post has gotten a bit stale, but I get annoyed when OP's don't follow up on the advice they were given in a post and latecomers are left with wondering "which advise did they go with?" So here's an update, over a year later.

A few weeks ago we finally stumbled on and purchased our first sailboat, Abigail. A few months after my post, we moved to San Carlos, Mexico to take advantage of the sailing community as well as other things that appealed to us personally. Looking at boats while living here made it easier to filter out the boats we didn't want since most boats here are already outfitted for long-term cruising and liveaboards.

While it wasn't on this thread, the best bit of advice I got was that "boats grow on trees". There are boats on the market every day (especially now) and at great prices. We got a GREAT deal on Abigail by biding our time. There were boats we really wanted, but maybe a little out of our price range, so we held firm on our stance not to go boat-broke and eventually got not only a great starter boat, but an even better deal.

David_Old_Jersey's signature links helped out a lot just ball-parking costs. The West Marine catalog suggestion was also helpful; pretty sure I wore a few website's servers down in many online marathon research sessions.

We are on the hard in the work yard and are waiting for a few things to cure before bottom paint and a splash date in the next couple of weeks. Thanks everyone for your advice and expertise....long distance high fives all around!

Cheers!