Keel Crack Controversy—pix—Surveyor or marine architect?

[Dave_R]

I'm under contract on a 1984 Gulfstar 44. This boat has an ENCAPSULATED KEEL. No keelboats.

Survey showed a crack at the aft end of the keel, where it joined the hull. Pic 1.

Grinding that out, we discovered a seam or crack that seems to run the length of the keel. Pics 2 and 3.

I have posted about that on several forums. Here's the controversy. People that seem to know most about Gulfstars seem to think its a seam, or fillet tape. Built that way. I gotta admit, the line does not look like a repair attempt to me. However, most folks seem to think its a repair, which would certainly be an automatic "walk away."

One person suggested having it inspected by a surveyor who KNOWS sailboats of that vintage. Or perhaps, a marine architect.

Surveyors are common. Surveyors who KNOW sailboats of that vintage are more rare, and harder to find. I don't know whether a marine architect would do a "house call" and offer an expert opinion.

Anyone know a surveyor with appropriate qualifications? Or another expert who could offer a qualified opinion on whether this seam is "as designed" or an old repair?

[Spot]

Where is the boat found? On the hard or in the water?

[Cheechako]

If you are sure it's an encapsulated keel, then grind further along the line to see where the 'crack' ends.
It is possible that the keel on those is glassed onto the hull layup later rather than laid up as one piece. Some molds are not made to get down very far into. Other boats they lay up the hull in halves then join the halves at the centerline .... keel also with layers of glass.
I have no idea how Gulfstar did these.

That is either a real bad damage event or the way they made them I guess.
Can you see the inside the hull where the join is? Visible from the inside? Maybe there is a heavy layup holding it together and the way it was built? maybe those two white lines are the feathering of the layup joining the keel to the hull?. It ought to be a laid up long tab with two "join lines" ground and feathered over the joint.

[davil]

Tom Neale is on BoatUS advisory and he raised his family on a Gulfstar,if is any "expert" with more knowledge specifically on Gulfstars doubt it
Nothing lost trying to contact him.

[Chotu]

The 2nd and 3rd pics appear to show tape with a whitish or yellowish filler below it. Or maybe the fairing compound still in the uneven step between between the glass tape and the local glass it’s joining. Yes, I think it’s the latter.

That’s not a crack. It’s fairing compound. You can see it all around the edge of where you ground it off too.

The first pic is quite concerning to me because no matter how this is constructed, the first picture shows it’s moving. It shouldn’t be moving.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Chotu

The 2nd and 3rd pics appear to show tape with a whitish or yellowish filler below it. Or maybe the fairing compound still in the uneven step between between the glass tape and the local glass it’s joining. Yes, I think it’s the latter.

That’s not a crack. It’s fairing compound. You can see it all around the edge of where you ground it off too.

The first pic is quite concerning to me because no matter how this is constructed, the first picture shows it’s moving. It shouldn’t be moving.

The original pic looks like over catalyzed, poorly done filler to me. Now it's ground off, there appears to be no real crack.

[tkeithlu]

I see two things:

The "T" shaped crack is at the aft end of the keel and suggests separation, not compaction. That in turn suggests that this is not impact damage, which usually spreads at the front of the keel and compacts at the trailing edge.

There is a distinct change in color of the fiberglass at the "crack" that runs along the keel. That suggests that it is not in fact a crack, but a seam in the layup of the hull/keel joint.

What I don't see is evidence of impact damage. But, I do recommend that you inspect carefully the inside of the hull at the keel. That's the other place you could see it, including such clues as loose keel bolts, buckled fiberglass, cracked or displaced longitudinals, or anything else that says that the keel moved relative to the hull.

So far, I don't see a problem. Good luck with it.

[GreenWave]

I don't know anything about Gulfstar construction but am going with Cheechako on this one. Clean it up and patch it up. It probably opened a bit when the keel hit something (on the back side). Only boats that have keels which have never hit something are brand new or owned by liars. :-)

[davil]

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailboats/Gulfstar

cursory check of Gulfstar 44 show quite a few on the market.

[sailor_ed]

I own a '75 GS 41 and I'm having problems orienting to the photos. Does photo 2 go back far enough to show the original area? What would photo 1 show on the other side of the keel? To communicate with photos you usually need a context photo and a detail photo. To my mind these photos are insufficient to allow a proper diagnosis. I would bring in a competent surveyor. A good one doesn't need to know how the boat was built, he will TELL you how the boat was built.



Fair winds... Ed

[Cadence]

Any chance it occurred from travel lift slings and placement?

[billgewater]

If it is a crack then surely there would have been water ingress into the surrounding glass. What does a water vapour meter show? If it shows water ingress, anywhere along the lines, then you have a problem, irrespective of it being a joint or a crack. If it is dry as a bone then it's probably good to go.

[KadeyKrogen38]

I did not think Gulfstar’s had encapsulated keels. They had a stub that keel bolted on to. It was well faired. You are probably seeing keel attachment line.

[Stewie12]

I do not think it is serious enough to worry about,

[nortonscove]

I can't see any advantage in making a boat with a keel attached in such a fashion. Having built fibreglass boats this isn't the way one would attach the keel. That look would indicate it was glued on. If indeed it was designed to be attached later it would surely have been blended and not leave that distinctive line. The only possible way it could be attached in such a way is with massive amounts of glass in the bilge. If you cannot see such I would question those lines.