I've got the gelcoat blues...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

I'm totally kidding...

I was adding apples and bananas... and trying to make it comical...

Walk into any store to buy a quart, it's $50.. A hundred for a pro to match it... DANG cheap...



Well ... you made me cry... 1st time was when you said there were no shortcuts for getting 1/8" of bottom paint off a 50' boat... Something to the effect of "get a soft pad and a big box of 36 ..." Or of course spend $$...

Congrats on the solo path... Word of mouth of course is your second biggest asset behind your skillz... Don't "perfection" yourself into the poor house...

Bet you cried a lot more before you were done, too!



Thanks man. Already got lots of work lined up.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

Bet you cried a lot more before you were done, too!

Thanks man. Already got lots of work lined up.

More than you know... especially when I did the math and it would have been far cheaper for me to have paid to have the bottom done vs lay days in the yard...



If you recall, it was supposed to be about 20% of the overall yard work, not the can of worms 90% that it turned out to be... That's saying a lot when the 10% was fitting a 1000# 11ft rudder and rebedding a 16k# keel....

Once it wasn't a simple scuff and slap, I shoulda handed off the grinder so to speak....

Wasn't my first bottom, or 3rd, or 5th... It definitely was my last...

-----

Super news on all of your lined up work!
If you ever start running lean.... There's tons of work in Mississippi....

[HappyMdRSailor]

***UPDATE***

GCP called after working on the match for 3 days...

SUPER NICE guy... said the color shifts under different light, he cannot get a perfect match... The word "close" was bounced around a lot... We agreed on daylight being the best source as I didn't plan on using the boat in the bathtub under fluorescent or incandescent lighting...

I don't feel so bad after he mentioned he's been doing this for 20 years....

I'm not too dismayed... This is the best option other than a minmatch... But dragging the boat out West would take a rather large chunk outta the profit margin...

[colemj]

By the time you are finished, it may have been less work and money to just paint the whole thing…

Mark

[minaret]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

***UPDATE***

GCP called after working on the match for 3 days...

SUPER NICE guy... said the color shifts under different light, he cannot get a perfect match... The word "close" was bounced around a lot... We agreed on daylight being the best source as I didn't plan on using the boat in the bathtub under fluorescent or incandescent lighting...

I don't feel so bad after he mentioned he's been doing this for 20 years....

I'm not too dismayed... This is the best option other than a minmatch... But dragging the boat out West would take a rather large chunk outta the profit margin...

That's classic CYA on a match like that. They don't use a Sun Gun up there. It's actually pretty difficult to match a color like that with only a hole saw cutout, too. They'll send you something real close with the right pigment ratio. Then you can take half of it (don't adjust the whole batch!), and play with it on the work surface till it's perfect. You'll get it. Don't forget to do a test patch before you shoot your repairs.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by colemj

By the time you are finished, it may have been less work and money to just paint the whole thing…

Mark

Yeah, but then you've got paint instead of gel. Who wants that?

[colemj]

Well, the sentiment also applies if you replace the word "paint" with "gel"!

It's been 2 weeks and several hundred dollars to match a small spot. Could have gelcoated the entire boat with a "close" yellow by now?

Mark

[hellosailor]

"said the color shifts under different light, he cannot get a perfect match"
Sun Gun, schmun gun. There are plenty of high color indexed light sources used in all kinds of color-sensitive businesses. (And interestingly, 3M doesn't offer a color rendering index (CRI) rating for their sun gun.)
Bottom line is probably that every different pigment has a different appearance under different light sources, and since they don't know the exact pigment blends used in the original color--they can't assume they will ever match the whole range of responses.
Porche's Guardsman Red, Toyota Super Red II, the bright reds used on the Italian supercars...all similar problems, no one wants to reveal exactly how they make "the brightest" red color. And it is easily possible that a pigment which was used 20 years ago, is now an EPA-banned substance and no longer available at all.
A good high coat of bottom paint and a pair of free souvenir sunglasses will take care of the rest.(G)

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

That's classic CYA on a match like that. They don't use a Sun Gun up there. It's actually pretty difficult to match a color like that with only a hole saw cutout, too. They'll send you something real close with the right pigment ratio. Then you can take half of it (don't adjust the whole batch!), and play with it on the work surface till it's perfect. You'll get it. Don't forget to do a test patch before you shoot your repairs.

Yea... I knew the 2" sample was pushing the color match sample for sure... They GCP guy and I talked a lot about pigment ratios in yellows vs easily tinted colors... I'm actually expecting to be really happy with the base point...

Oh man! I'm already overly cautious! One quart is WAY MORE than enough for my 3 areas... (well 4 now with the min-hole... wait... that sounded ... well... not very nice instead of funny... )

Originally Posted by colemj

Well, the sentiment also applies if you replace the word "paint" with "gel"!

It's been 2 weeks and several hundred dollars to match a small spot. Could have gelcoated the entire boat with a "close" yellow by now?

Mark

HOLY CRAP!

Besides crying like a baby sanding a shiny-glossy-like factory new- hull to prep...

Do you have any idea how long it would take MEEEE to spray, color sand, and polish out an entire hull???

Hmm... prolly 2 weeks.... at 12hrs a day!

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"said the color shifts under different light, he cannot get a perfect match"
Sun Gun, schmun gun. There are plenty of high color indexed light sources used in all kinds of color-sensitive businesses. (And interestingly, 3M doesn't offer a color rendering index (CRI) rating for their sun gun.)
Bottom line is probably that every different pigment has a different appearance under different light sources, and since they don't know the exact pigment blends used in the original color--they can't assume they will ever match the whole range of responses.
Porche's Guardsman Red, Toyota Super Red II, the bright reds used on the Italian supercars...all similar problems, no one wants to reveal exactly how they make "the brightest" red color. And it is easily possible that a pigment which was used 20 years ago, is now an EPA-banned substance and no longer available at all.
A good high coat of bottom paint and a pair of free souvenir sunglasses will take care of the rest.(G)

The main reason for the color shift was mentioned earlier...

To make matters even more difficult... There's a base layer of gel... "or final layer of the gel before layup I suppose" that is BLUE/GREY...
i.e. all blending will have to be done from the top layer down...

Timmy the spray boy-
"Hey bossman.... we don't have enough yeller gel to spray that mold..."

Bossman-
"Dang it Timmy! Use yer head man!.... Spray the mold with a couple coats of yellow, and then just use whatever leftover crap gel we got hangin' around to finish up! We need pop out a yellow boat today!"

[HappyMdRSailor]

***UPDATE***

Things are progressing!

Got the gallooooon of gel from GCP, and I can definitely say it looked SUPER close!

Diverted a quart to it's very own can for further experimentation... Named the color and marked the can accordingly... Mixed an ounce via exact recommendations... 15% 50-50 acetone-MEK, 1.5%MEK-P, +wax for the test batch...

Result = excellent color retention... Sanded out, compounded, polished, buffed w/wax resulting test spot reduced to size of quarter, but still thick enough to retain color....

(***edit*** the remainder of the ounce is on test panels... I obviously did not sand an ounce of gel into a quarter sized spot!)

Just the tiniest SMIDGE too red/orange... and I'd like to adjust...

Min-Man...
Would you add some neutral gel (20%?) and chrome yellow?
Or just try and yellow it up with the tint? (doubtful...)
Or I can get some pure yellow gel... (best bet?....)

I also have the mis-matched quarts of the right tone, but too light...

running low on neutral and Y chrome, but will get more... or pure yellow gel if need be...

Thanks for looking!

[minaret]

PITA Yellow, lol!

Yes, yer on it. No neutral, I'd start by trying to adjust a small batch with what you have on hand, as long as it's wax free and good gel. Then get a quart of a lighter yellow and try that if what you have isn't right. I wouldn't use it if you matched from neutral and aren't sure the pigment ratio is right. Too bad it's too dark instead of too light. They try not to do that. Good luck achieving perfection, it IS possible!

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

PITA Yellow, lol!

Yes, yer on it. No neutral, I'd start by trying to adjust a small batch with what you have on hand, as long as it's wax free and good gel. Then get a quart of a lighter yellow and try that if what you have isn't right. I wouldn't use it if you matched from neutral and aren't sure the pigment ratio is right. Too bad it's too dark instead of too light. They try not to do that. Good luck achieving perfection, it IS possible!

Minman... Thanks for the guru-pointers...

I have to tell ya... The thought of adding neutral and then trying to get the right pigment saturation and ratio for this gave me the willies.... In fact, I'm fairly convinced that it's the perfect way to ruin a whole gallon, one quart at a time...

It may take just a little more patience, but mixing with a new batch of pure yellow a smidge at a time doesn't cause me any anxiety whatsoever...

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the CGP dudes will play nice and send me a quart for a considerable discount off their going $buck-fiddy$ rate... If not, I think I remember Fiberlay being 28ish/qt

Iv'e refined the tint name to PitaPotterYellow, re-marking the can today...On the bright side, I should start looking for another poor hull finish boat to flip, as I'm gunna have a shiznit load of extree yeller gel with the shelf life of a banana....

[minaret]

Ah, a WWP? Good boat to flip.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

Ah, a WWP? Good boat to flip.

NOT A YELLOW ONE!!!!

Wait.... maybe I need to find another yellow one with all the extra gel...

I do have to agree with ya tho... up to the gel match debacle, this thing went smooth as silk... looks/turned out spectacular.... And not much $$$...

Upgraded the panel and wiring, made a slick distribution/bus board, glass, and all the tiny owner mistakes... and I had almost all supplies on hand... only thing left is the Garmin 540 which I'm gunna leave for the new owner to upgrade

I'd do another late model '2010-'15 in a heartbeat

GCP said $58 for a chrome yellow quart, with shipping it's $80 and a week

[HappyMdRSailor]

Update again...

Other priorities took over... and I lost my "selling season" window a long time ago... But I now am under the weather gun... It's gunna get downright no fun to be doing outside resin work soon...

The GCP guys are super great... some resin and tint on the way to get some base red out... Meanwhile, I made up some small test samples mixing in some of the previous wrong color yellow gels with the "too red GCP" and tinting them... Some of the sanded out spots look like a great match, but I'm getting an "orange halo" on the catalyzed test spots... I'm assuming the majority is due to still too much of the "over red" blending on the yellow substrate...

The centers look good, blending edges = orange halo... just too much red still, or red shift catalyzing? It's awful tough to mix perfectly in 1 oz test batches... the 50/50 acetone/MEK is easy, but MEKP and wax are tough at such a small batch... Could I have too much/little of these?
BTW, this was one hot test batch with extra tints at the ready, so 4 spots were with one mix ratio, tint adjusted 4 times... Not like I reproduced the halo with 4 batches

I'll try again with a different MEKP (I have 3 different), maybe the first MEKP that was part of the blues initial issue... skip the wax and PVA 'em...

After this... I'm taking votes for the next task
1. Cure Parkinson's
2. World hunger
3. Middle East Peace