Interior refit 1970's kit sailboat questions

[Spot]

Originally Posted by wingless

Plan sounds good. Worst case would be with hatches closed for a still air environment.

I have yet to close myself all the way in. The companionway is not set up for drop boards, just a one-piece fiberglass hatch that gets placed and locked to the sliding hatch from the outside. I would need to improve the handles and latches to make all work from the inside as well as they do from the outside.

[wingless]

Originally Posted by Spot

I was wondering about that too: door, drawer, or a cubby with an access hole.
For the depths here, drawers would be the easier to manage, and I could even pull them out and bring them into the house when not sailing.

If going w/ drawers, then a full extension compound slide will permit maximizing the drawer depth and drawer access, to not have dead space behind the drawer.

[Spot]

Thanks WL.

I did the stove test this morning with the less-than-manual clearance.

Origo 1500 with last's years alcohol, 21' sailboat, hatches closed except for pencil-diameter sized crack at companionway. Temps are at the ceiling of the cabin above stove, K-thermocouple, multimeter. Coffee maker is older Italian job, probably billed as 6 cups, water used was about 300ml / 10oz.

Ambient temp 11 C / 52 F
While running 42 C /108 F
Pot off stove, stove lit 52 C / 126 F

It took a little over 4.5 minutes, including the time to turn off stove, latch cover correctly, and re-light. The need for a place to put hot pans coming off the stove has been verified. I could see the ceiling getting quite warm during the summer after cooking.

[LittleWing77]

Ooo! Coffee! I'll stop by if good coffee's on offer!

Just teasing,
LittleWing77

[wingless]

Good info, good test. What is the existing vertical clearance?

All things being equal, a good ballpark is to increase the measured temperature by the increase in ambient.

So a 90°F / 32°C ambient with pot off the stove will create a ceiling temperature of 163°F / 73°C.

Add to that the radiant sun heat from a hot summer day increasing the ceiling temperature from the outside.

IMO that setup should be modified, maybe with the heat shield described, or lowering the stove.

Another option would be to duplicate the test at the specified clearance, maybe setting aside the simulated cabinet.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Ooo! Coffee! I'll stop by if good coffee's on offer!

Just teasing,
LittleWing77

The coffee would be on the house. I would not be as far or as encouraged without the folks on CF and trailersailor.com fielding my questions.

That cup; however, was not stellar. Last bit out of the can and first batch through after cleaning the moka pot after the kids had borrowed it and returned it dirty...plus I was fiddling with the phone and meter so I let it go a little long too long.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by wingless

Good info, good test. What is the existing vertical clearance?

All things being equal, a good ballpark is to increase the measured temperature by the increase in ambient.

So a 90°F / 32°C ambient with pot off the stove will create a ceiling temperature of 163°F / 73°C.

Add to that the radiant sun heat from a hot summer day increasing the ceiling temperature from the outside.

IMO that setup should be modified, maybe with the heat shield described, or lowering the stove.

Another option would be to duplicate the test at the specified clearance, maybe setting aside the simulated cabinet.

I like your hypotheses. How often does a person hear that?

Putting stove all the way down on the berth would take 22 to 32 inches. The other thought discussed with crew was to make stove removable and cook out of doors when indoor temps would be adversely affected. I could also see it working for dinners that are fried or otherwise aromatic enough that the lingering smells would not do the interior trappings any good.

[wingless]

Originally Posted by Spot

I like your hypotheses. How often does a person hear that?

Thanks much. Deep thought is my best attribute.

Originally Posted by Spot

Putting stove all the way down on the berth would take 22 to 32 inches. The other thought discussed with crew was to make stove removable and cook out of doors when indoor temps would be adversely affected. I could also see it working for dinners that are fried or otherwise aromatic enough that the lingering smells would not do the interior trappings any good.

The stove manufacturer specifies 30"minimum vertical clearance. The 22" data looks to permit things to get too hot.

Running an identical test at 30" (or 32") w/o the temporary cabinet would provide actual data that could provide insight on the effect / importance of the specified vertical clearance.

[wingless]

Also, the measurement of air temperature is not as good as measuring the surface temperature.

Air is going to move around from convection, causing variability, plus it is less important.

The surface temperature is the stable and important measurement. It will take time to stabilize. Worst case is burner on w/o a pot.

[Spot]

Test run #2, stove on berth

Ambient temp 12 C / 54 F
While running 38 C /108 F
Pot off stove, stove lit 42 C / 108 F

So more distance does change the temperatures, but not by a large amount. This could be due to reading air versus surface temps. Even blowing a puff of air across the probe will knock it down a couple degrees for a couple seconds.

I am leaning towards stove up off the berth, as in test #1, and a heat shield.

I need to decide some stuff to move this boat project forward.

[river251]

subscribed

[Spot]

The weekend was split between family, car repair, and leaf mowing-bagging-hauling.
Yesterday it snowed all day but nothing lasted except for in the pine boughs. Today it is supposed to snow 3-5 inches and the boat has yet to be covered...partially because the boat tarp is good for leaves and my reluctance to call it 'over' for the season.

I ordered some foam online, enough to confirm my choices and to finish the side berths if those choices were good. I also ordered some Polyester UV resistant thread online after a consultation with Sailrite and Husqvarna. The information given conflicted: the machine people said go smaller (40), the sewing people said go bigger (92), so I went for the middle (69). If I can get thread-needle-fabric to work on my machine, I will be down to picking the final cover fabric and matching thread. I also got a couple small upholstery remnants from the outlet fabric store to test and fix another project and found out that the pricing on the rolls is discounted 50% at purchase so I am now looking at 8-12 dollars a yard which helps the overall project cost.

I am still not 100% decided on colors and patterns but more hopeful that I could decide soon. There is still a big decision on wall covering between berth and hull joint, type and color, that needs to be in hand before the rest falls into place.

I am starting to think about a final round of pattern-making for the cabinets and cushions so I can work indoors for the winter.

I messed with the CAD a little bit for the heat deflector. If I let a piece of thin metal follow the contour of the cabinet, it could rotate up into a backsplash and hood of sorts.

[wingless]

Sounds like a good plan.

The heat shield / backsplash should have a small air gap that permits convection airflow to prevent thermal transfer to the hidden surface.

Does the hinged heat shield work as shown in the model, with the curvature of the upper part of the cabin?

That large cover obstructs storage below the stove unless raised. If that large cover were to fall it wouldn't be good, so secure retention is required.

When I setup my sewing machine I got many needle sizes to permit proper selection.

[Spot]

I considered a pneumatic cylinder on the cover/heat shield, like the ones on cars to hold open a hatch or hood. Yes, an unexpected closure would be disastrous: lit stove, fingers pinched, and hot food or drink everywhere...I will mock it up and see. I do not have the hull in CAD. I have window shopped for a scanner but they cost quite a bit and the cardboard templates work well to get things to fit so I will most likely stick with that.

I do need to check on needles, thanks for the reminder. I had a visit with a Husqvarna tech one time to get the machine running better after struggling on a project. She basically had me buy new needles, bobbins (plastic is preferred on my 116, I tried metal...) and thread. No other cleaning or adjustments that I remember.

[wingless]

With that large ell shape, it won't be possible to attain gravity retention. The 90° bend that conforms w/ the cabinet may mandate moving the hinge away from the hull, so the inboard surface is parallel to the cabin top when opened.

It may be that a fore / aft angle exists between the cabin top and the inboard cover surface when latched open.

Tossing needles are always the first step to fixing sewing machine problems.