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Old 02-10-2022, 21:20   #1
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Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I am interested in insulated the bare fiberglass hull in the V berth and aft cabin. Some will be bellow waterline, most will be above. All exposed areas will be covered for looks material TBD.

The goal is to cut down on the condensation, keep the boat warmer / cooler. The heat sources espar hydronic,

I see a lot of people use interlocking flooring mats which look easy to use but are they the right thing? How do they hold up? Is there something better? A brand that is better or worse?

Thanks
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Old 03-10-2022, 00:30   #2
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I think Armaflex (XG) is the best. There are self-adhesiv variants or it's attached using a separate (special) glue.

Not sure, how to cover the Armaflex. Maybe with normal marine cover fabric.
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Old 03-10-2022, 03:03   #3
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

"The goal is to cut down on the condensation"

Ventilation, Ventilation, Ventilation.

Identify the source and amend / remove.
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Old 03-10-2022, 04:16   #4
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I’d talk to a pro so you don’t create a mould trap. I think the interior I’ve learned to hate is fun fur. I recall the SeaRay dealer saying it was soft like a teddy bear.
BS it’s hiding poor glass works practices. The roof in our Jeanneau is shiny epoxy double sided mould. No rug burn on the bald spots. Gluing 1/64 wood strips for that closed coffin look is not for us. We’ve owed woodies. I noticed some weird material in a Beneteau. Thin skin of plastic with what appears insulation on the back. I think it was to reduce the heat from the cast iron engine radiating. The balsa inside your coach roof is a heck of an insulator.
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Old 03-10-2022, 04:18   #5
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

Obviously more is better, depending on how involved you want to get. But short of glassing in ribs, gluing insulation between them, and then attaching planking over it to the ribs, those puzzle mats are a decent start.
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Old 03-10-2022, 05:07   #6
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I confirm, armaflex is in the best products,
can be covered by a classic lining
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Old 03-10-2022, 06:09   #7
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

Agree w/the approach to do below the waterline to keep the boat warmer.

Would be researching materials with the best R value, relatively good price, easy to install and would not absorb water.

Blue or pink foam has a R value ~5, while the interlocking EVA or PE foam is only ~1.5. A closed cell spray foam is ~3.5.

Looked up Armaflex and the R value is ~4/in. Not too bad and sold self adhesive sheets. Didn't see a price, but seems like it would be fairly expensive.
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Old 03-10-2022, 17:17   #8
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdx_sailing View Post
I am interested in insulated the bare fiberglass hull in the V berth and aft cabin. Some will be bellow waterline, most will be above. All exposed areas will be covered for looks material TBD.

The goal is to cut down on the condensation, keep the boat warmer / cooler. The heat sources espar hydronic,

I see a lot of people use interlocking flooring mats which look easy to use but are they the right thing? How do they hold up? Is there something better? A brand that is better or worse?

Thanks

Hey PDX
I used pink styrofoam and you CAn clue that with plyurethan-like "liquid nails"
Trick is to seal the hull completely
And since I build a nice looking 33 ferro sail boat once I don't shy away from using a construction coating called dryfit like a tile glue and carpet it over
Warm, absolutely no more moisture
I may post a picture once I upgrade my computer skills
Foam the seams
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Old 03-10-2022, 18:37   #9
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I chose Aeroflex (product called Aerocel) because of its fire-retardant properties. It's made from EPDM. Although it will burn, it self-extinguishes within seconds of removal of flame (I tested with propane torch). Pink/blue styrofoam and urethane will continue to burn and drip napalm-like flaming liquid while burning.

Also, Aerocel (made by Aeroflex) is flexible and will confirm to hull surface irregularities, which is important because you need to ensure that there are no air pockets between the hull and insulation.

You must cover the interior-facing surface of Aerocel because it tears easily. In areas inside of cabinets, I used 1/8" plywood (aka door skin), screwed to 1" X 1" X 1" cleats glassed to the hull (yeah, I know... conducts heat/defeats insulation, but I had didn't want to glue the plywood to the insulation). In area that are not concealed, I am installing 1.5" wide varnished ceiling strips.

I bought it from Zoro.com in a 35' x 4' roll, 1" thick. It cuts with scissors and glues with Weldwood contact cement. I did not use the adhesive-backed version.

Zoro: Zoro #: G0652747, Mfr #: M927-ACSR10 S2S
Mfg: https://aeroflexusa.com/


ArmaFlex is similar and I believe there were lawsuits between the two (Armaflex and Aeroflex).

Anyway, not all AramFlex thicknesses are made of EPDM. I think the 1" is made from NBR/PVC and only the 1.5" is made from EPDM. If you choose an Armaflex, check the SDS and TDS to make sure you are getting what you think. Aeroflex uses only EPDM. Review the technical data sheets for toxicity and flame spread. Adding insulation is one more material that could rapidly spread flame and produce dense and/or toxic smoke. As if resin and cushions weren't enough already!

Attached is a comparison of EPDM vs. NBR/PVC
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Aeroflex_Nitrile_comparision.pdf (197.8 KB, 12 views)
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Old 03-10-2022, 19:29   #10
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

I got to thinking after posting a bit ago, went out to the shed, and did some flame-testing on some scrap Aerocel. Using Bic lighter, I easily ignited the Aerocel, but then noticed that, after about 10 seconds, that section right over the flame stopped burning even though it was still in the lighter's flame. The Aerocel that is burning swells up and forms a charred layer that stops burning. The reaction is almost identical to what happens when intumescent paint burns (Firetex, FireguardE84, etc...): swells up and stops burning within 10 seconds.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-109851-1.html
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Old 03-10-2022, 20:08   #11
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

The problem with foams that create a vapour barrier including armaflex is unless you have absolutely zero voids between it and the hull, condensation will form and mold will grow. By far the easiest for application and ensuring a complete bond with vapour barrier is a closed cell spray foam (this does NOT absorb water as some claim but they are confused between a closed cell and open cell foam) it can be messy though. Also do not use the froth packs they sell in hardware stores as those are generally a polyisocyanurate and uses a pentane blowing agent (captive in the foam & highly flammable) You’ll need to hire a professional with non flammable blowing agent. There are a few wool felt sheet adhesive backed materials available (various materials, polyester, wool felt etc) that work great but can be expensive and hard to find in higher pile 1/4”+. Best, easiest and cheapest solution is marine carpet, higher the pile the better. Not a lot of R value but will stop the hull from sweating, bonds well, flexible and done properly can almost eliminate voids against the hull and will make a noticeable difference in the interior temperature and can be your finished product.
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Old 03-10-2022, 23:19   #12
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

Wear bigger sweaters [emoji5]
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Old 04-10-2022, 08:13   #13
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

First off thanks for all the posts I hadn't considered the flammability before, but did notice the rating on the Armaflex website. Great tip on the easily damaged surface of Aerocel. Maybe cover that with marine carpet?

I see K-flex usa come up in search for neoprene insulation, any experience with that brand? I haven't looked to see what the actual composition is or the flammability
rating yet.
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Old 04-10-2022, 09:18   #14
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

If your hull is cored, the thermal benefit of adding a relatively thin layer of insulation will be close to nil.
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Old 04-10-2022, 11:15   #15
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Re: Insulation Material for Fiberglass Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
If your hull is cored, the thermal benefit of adding a relatively thin layer of insulation will be close to nil.
It is solid fiberglass.
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