HUGE Refit, move boat to Dominica, Panama?

[Too Shea]

HELP, Seeking genuine input and advice on a major refit project. I hesitate to post this because of the mean spirited posters so, please spare me any off-color remarks.

I bought an old sailboat, 1976 Gulfstar 52 MS. I fell in love with the lines, layout, history of it and the previous owner. I’ve been refitting it for the last 2 1/2 years! I’m a strong DIY’r but, I’ve gotten in over my head. Not because of my ability but, because of my time and energy to finish the project. I didn’t use enough discretion to know when and where to say ‘stop’. You know the saying, Perfection is the enemy of Good. Yes, the cost is also out of control and the project has dominated every available spare moment of my time.

A friend was telling me about his dad who moved a boat to Dominica (years ago) and had it refit there because of the significantly less expensive resources. This got me thinking. What’s the reality of me doing that? Is there real cost savings, reliable labor and supplies in this post-Covid day and age in a place like Mexico, Dominica, Panama or .... other suggestions?

Even though I’ve completed approximately 60%+ of the work on the list (I know the list never stops) and people who’ve seen where I’ve started can’t believe the transformation. However, I still have a significant project list that has me overwhelmed and mentally over it at this point. I need my life back.

Regular labor is impossible to find because of all the reasons we currently hear about on the news. The skilled labor that’s available will cost me another huge chunk of $ that I’m having a hard time getting comfortable with. I’m ok financially and know that it’s going to take money to finish, I’m just trying to explore options and see how I can wisely finish this beast.

I’m going to post this in other forums so no need to reply to more that one post. Thank you in advance.

[danno7]

I know the story you are telling, it takes a huge amount of patience. I have been involved with these sort of things also, they seem to linger far too long.

I know those on this forum will have questions like:
Where is the boat now?
How will you get it to whereever it ends up?
What kind of work do you need done? Skilled work or grunt work?

I appreciate those willing to take on projects to keep old things alive. Like keeping me and my 1969 Mustang rolling!

[s/v Moondancer]

Would only work if you spoke Spanish and you supervised the work.

[tkeithlu]

Having spent 12 years building a boat, and a few more straightening out my mistakes, I do know where you are coming from.

I managed to overcome that overwhelming feeling several ways. One was to have a strict rule - no work on the boat in temperatures below freezing, and another to have a hobby that gets some of the time. Then there was ignore the overwhelming part and focus on just this one little job that I can do today. There were days when I had to call a friend to come over and just talk me down so I could pick up that welding torch and proceed.

Overall, I doubt that you will save enough time by farming it out, because you'll really have to be there to supervise. It may, however, be time to sit down and decide whether you want to continue in a more balanced way or sell it, buy a boat, and go sailing. Your choice, but I hope you won't make that decision in a context of anguish over the project.

[Cpt Mark]

I had a client who's boat I delivered to Mexico for him. It was a newly purchased boat and an offshore delivery. I took it to a reputable marina for extensive repairs. I asked him who was supervising his refit? Nobody. He had full faith that he was going to save 35-40% by having it done across the border vs the U.S. I told him not unless he had someone supervising. He called me 6 months later and admitted I was right. He would have saved money by having it done in the U.S.

This is not to say the Mexicans were crooks. They do great work and the yard facilities were awesome. It's just that on any project like this a thousand questions will come up and need attention to and that's where your project manager steps in.

Had another client. Wanted to build a brand new yacht. Budget 15 million dollars. Top Naval architects hired and top yard to build. Project manager required for a successful build. Every yacht bbuild has a full time project manager.

[Cheechako]

Good advice above. Tkeithlu is right on.
It's very hard to have a big project done without constant supervision. Even US yards have screwed things up when I have tried.
Trinidad is where I would have it done. Peake or Powerboats yards probably. You can live there while it's happening too. It ain't cheap anywhere, but cheaper there.

My advice is: can you just get it in sailing condition? Do that, do some sailing, then decide how much further to go. What's it's real condition at this point.?

I should add, I had friends who bought a 43 foot Brewer design made in Taiwan. It was a bit rough when they bought it but ran well. The teak deck was bulged up in a few places badly. The main was pretty shot. They sailed the Caribe for 3 years and the only thing they did was a new mainsail. They didn't focus on making the boat perfect. It was a strong boat with warpy decks and minimal rebuilding. They sold the boat for the $ they bought it for after 3 years. A real example of a cheap cruising life.

[jimjimmyjimjim]

I don't have any specific advice regarding having the work done in some other country. But I do identify with your frustration. However, about 50 years ago it was common to send your boat down to Mexico etc., to have most of the interior work done because of the cost savings. Don't know if that still holds true. My hunch is that you may be just exchanging one headache for another.
Last summer I bought a 41ft Formosa which the PO had done most of the heavy lifting. I still have to redo the decks and put everything back together. So, I know what you're going through. I learned an important lesson from one of the guys in the yard where I'm doing the work. He is constantly making work for himself by over building and changing his designs, chasing after perfection. He has been working on his boat in this yard for at least 6 years and will probably be here another 6. Every few months he has a melt down because the amount of work overwhelms him. It seems like every time he gets close to completing a job he changes his mind and completely redoes it to "make it better".

I decided to shoot for "good, safe and done" rather than perfection. If the deck isn't perfectly faired I can live with it as long as it's strong and safe. Even still, I get overwhelmed by the amount of work and the cost. I manage it by focusing on the project at hand and I try not to get too far ahead of myself.

I'll be watching this conversation to see if you get any usable advice. Good luck and hang in there! Not to add to your troubles, but have you looked into insurance yet?

[Stewie12]

To have work done on a boat when you are not there will more than likely turn into a nightmare. Sure labour is cheap outside the US, but you have to be there to make sure the work is done correctly.

[dannc]

will

Originally Posted by Too Shea

...
I bought an old sailboat, 1976 Gulfstar 52 MS. I fell in love with the lines, layout, history of it and the previous owner. I’ve been refitting it for the last 2 1/2 years! I’m a strong DIY’r but, I’ve gotten in over my head. Not because of my ability but, because of my time and energy to finish the project. I didn’t use enough discretion to know when and where to say ‘stop’. You know the saying, Perfection is the enemy of Good. Yes, the cost is also out of control and the project has dominated every available spare moment of my time.
...
Even though I’ve completed approximately 60%+ of the work on the list (I know the list never stops) and people who’ve seen where I’ve started can’t believe the transformation. However, I still have a significant project list that has me overwhelmed and mentally over it at this point. I need my life back.
...

First, take a break, go on vacation and do something fun.

You have a list. Have you broken down the list into say three groups, something like,

1. Have To Be Fixed for safety reasons
2. Should Be Fixed
3. Would Be Nice To Be Fixed.

Group 1 has to be fixed to be safe and seaworthy. Group 2 should be done but one can live without it. Number 3 you get to when you get to it.

Also set a priority on the items in each group AND guestimate how long it will take complete the task. Knowing the priority and how long it take to do the work, you might just say, heck with it, I am doing something fast to do to get it off the list and make some progress.

This also allows one to see how much work is left to do and what is really important.

Don't go glassy eyed but we use a Kanban Board, which can be simply a list of things to do and the state of those things. We try to keep it simple and we have a list of work that needs to be done, a backlog, what is In Progress, meaning it is being worked on, and what is Done. Seeming things move from the Backlog, to In Progress and finally Done, show progress. Delos and Refitting Athena use this technique to track work and get things done. It really does mentally help, seeing things move from not done to done.

One can do the Kanban Board with software or simple Post It Notes like Delos and Refitting Athena.

We do these groupings, prioritization, and effort guestimates in the projects I work on. It helps finish projects.

And just like work, one needs a break, take a vacation from the boat rebuild.

Later,
Dan

[DMCantor]

Did you mean "Domnican Republic?" Because, while I love to visit Dominica, there is absolutely no infrastructure for significant boat repair/maintenance. There used to be a Budget Marine affiliate in Portsmouth, but it got wiped out by the hurricane.

[sy_gilana]

Panama - no.
Colombia, yes, specifically Ferroalquimar. (they have a facebook page and a web page)

When you ask for your quote, its in Colombian Pesos, (COP) although it shows the $ sign.
Current exchange rate is about 3700 to the $. The rate is very favorable now.

Here is a tip. If you do everything through the yard, it gives them wiggle room on some prices, saving a heap overall. If you try to shop "outside" you will land up spending more money.

This is an historical ship-building and repair port. You can get anything done there. I had my generator rewound by the same place that does military submarines. The quality is ISO 9001,2,3. Galvanizing, propeller casting and balancing, all the trades are right there.

Look no further.

[belizesailor]

As others have said, you gotta be there to supervise the job. I have found that to be true even in the USA.

Another good option is Rio Dulce, Guatemala.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Too Shea

HELP, Seeking genuine input and advice on a major refit project. I hesitate to post this because of the mean spirited posters so, please spare me any off-color remarks.

I bought an old sailboat, 1976 Gulfstar 52 MS. I fell in love with the lines, layout, history of it and the previous owner. I’ve been refitting it for the last 2 1/2 years! I’m a strong DIY’r but, I’ve gotten in over my head. Not because of my ability but, because of my time and energy to finish the project. I didn’t use enough discretion to know when and where to say ‘stop’. You know the saying, Perfection is the enemy of Good. Yes, the cost is also out of control and the project has dominated every available spare moment of my time.

A friend was telling me about his dad who moved a boat to Dominica (years ago) and had it refit there because of the significantly less expensive resources. This got me thinking. What’s the reality of me doing that? Is there real cost savings, reliable labor and supplies in this post-Covid day and age in a place like Mexico, Dominica, Panama or .... other suggestions?

Even though I’ve completed approximately 60%+ of the work on the list (I know the list never stops) and people who’ve seen where I’ve started can’t believe the transformation. However, I still have a significant project list that has me overwhelmed and mentally over it at this point. I need my life back.

Regular labor is impossible to find because of all the reasons we currently hear about on the news. The skilled labor that’s available will cost me another huge chunk of $ that I’m having a hard time getting comfortable with. I’m ok financially and know that it’s going to take money to finish, I’m just trying to explore options and see how I can wisely finish this beast.

I’m going to post this in other forums so no need to reply to more that one post. Thank you in advance.

I hate to be the bearer of grim tidings but you should watch this before sinking any more time or money into this project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNzYHseDIE

This guy is very fair and level headed in his reviews. Get this boat sailable and sell it.

[Thumbs Up]

That place that you are looking for is called Rio Dulce, Guatemala.

[sailormarine]

You could do this in Panama,at Shelter Bay Marina on the Colon side. Labor is definitely cheaper than here, but the down side is that anything comming in via customs is going to be a pain...unless you use one of the vendors at the Colon Free Trade Zone. We lived in Panama for four years and bought a boat there, which I hauled and worked on at Shelter Bay. The Marina manager and the yard manager were excellent, and the marina has a daily shuttle to Colon as well as restaurant, pool, etc. Just do bot expect to save as much money as you think you will.