how to test a chinese part versus name brand

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

While we are all gathered together perhaps someone knows the answer to this related.

I have Harken Air Blocks with bearings turned to powder. When we left the boat in Antigua for the summer I thought it would be simple to find replacement rollers. Harken apparently has two sizes. I can’t find specifics on their site and they do not respond to inquiries.

There appear to be both rollers and balls. Zoom in. Rollers look OK but the balls are goners.

These guys will be able to tell you if anyone can.
https://www.oysterbayboatshop.com/

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

While we are all gathered together perhaps someone knows the answer to this related.

I have Harken Air Blocks with bearings turned to powder. When we left the boat in Antigua for the summer I thought it would be simple to find replacement rollers. Harken apparently has two sizes. I can’t find specifics on their site and they do not respond to inquiries.

There appear to be both rollers and balls. Zoom in. Rollers look OK but the balls are goners.

These blocks are pretty easy to take apart. You need to inspect them to see if all the rollers are OK (maybe you have determined that by rotating the sheave). BTW, the rollers take the direct loads, the balls take the side loads.

In any case you can measure the delrin balls and the torlon rollers and order them (by size). I have.

I have also called Harken on the phone and found them helpful and willing to accept an order by phone.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Order them (Delrin or acetal) from McMaster Carr or some other respected vendor and they do the QC. Nearly as cheap. About $5 per hundred. I have used them in travelers.

A concern for typical marine applications is UV resistance. The McMaster web site states their Delrin and Torlon bearings are not recommended for outdoor applications. The Dupont web site states that some, but not all, Delrin formulations are UV resistant (see https://www.dupont.com/knowledge/grades-of-delrin.html.) $5/100 is cheap enough that you could just replace them periodically, but it's a hassle.


However, despite costing several times more, the Lewmar balls also appear to crumble after a few years when exposed to UV. So higher price does not mean higher quality.

[Kudu]

Selling small parts is an expensive business. Similar to the story of a restaurant where there is a base cost to even place an empty plate in front of you. Your running rigging is a critical item, not something you want to take a short-cut on. Pay the extra for the genuine part and be grateful the manufacturer is supporting you.



WRT China, history shows that those who dominate manufacturing, dominate the World. Great Britain in the 19th century, US in the 20th, and maybe China in the 21st. If you do not like the idea, you make your choices where you can.

[Jim Cate]

Your running rigging is a critical item, not something you want to take a short-cut on. Pay the extra for the genuine part and be grateful the manufacturer is supporting you.

But the OEM balls have failed, so replacing them with like is no assurance of excellence, no matter what the price.

Jim

[EngNate]

Well, I'll tell of one comparison I saw firsthand, albeit a little one sided. A brand new, sunk total loss boat raised with a beautifully polished stainless steel anchor shank, shank only, hanging from its chain.

[LargeMarge]

What kind of slingshot?
Target plinking?
Edible small game?
.
I think any manufactured sphere is better than sorting through rocks, but that is just me.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by EngNate

Well, I'll tell of one comparison I saw firsthand, albeit a little one sided. A brand new, sunk total loss boat raised with a beautifully polished stainless steel anchor shank, shank only, hanging from its chain.

Sitting in the "wrecks" yard in my marina is a totally destroyed, previously beautiful, 40 sloop, whose French anchor failed.

We had a beautiful polished stainless steel CQR style which was poorly made in the USA and which drug through every harbor on the west coast.

Neither of my examples, or the one you mentioned, serve to indict all Chinese, French or USA anchors or other products.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by geoff3nebel

Hi Dave_S
It’s hard to avoid buying Chinese: my DeWalt drill - made in China
Expensive Oscar de la Renta sports coat - made in China
My Solar panels - made in China
ditto my iPhone, iPad, toaster, kettle
Pretty much 90% of consumer products manufacturing is outsourced to China
The list is thousands of everyday inexpensive and top brand products long

It's not possible to totally avoid buying Chinese products (let that sink in for a moment) but it's not difficult to significantly reduce the percentage bought.

All of the items you mentioned could be bought, manufactured elsewhere, at competitive prices.

It doesn't take a lot of effort.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

It's not possible to totally avoid buying Chinese products (let that sink in for a moment) but it's not difficult to significantly reduce the percentage bought.

But Why?

I used to buy US made tools (when there was such a thing) and US made cars because I would not accept that the US couldn't make stuff just as good as the Japanese or Chinese.

Finally I just gave that up and now I go for the best product at the best price regardless of where it is made. We have a world economy and that is a good thing in my view.

If the US wants to compete with the Chinese they need to get their price of labor down, their engineering efficiency and creativity up, and the their litigation rate down.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by wingssail

But Why?

There are many good reasons. Some, but not all, reasons include their bullying, ethnic cleansing, the way they suppress people, their theft of intellectual property, ignoring international law, their treatment of Tibet and Hong Kong and the Uigars (SP?), and the list goes on.

[Bill_Giles]

As an aside, in the UK at least, things sold by marine vendors seem to be much more expensive than those of similar construction and quality to those intended for mobile homes etc.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

As an aside, in the UK at least, things sold by marine vendors seem to be much more expensive than those of similar construction and quality to those intended for mobile homes etc.

Interesting. Are there quality differences? For example, marine grade wire has a higher tin content then automotive wire. Often times it does appear like there is no difference in the product however sometimes there is a difference.

[Hydro]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

There are many good reasons. Some, but not all, reasons include their bullying, ethnic cleansing, the way they suppress people, their theft of intellectual property, ignoring international law, their treatment of Tibet and Hong Kong and the Uigars (SP?), and the list goes on.

Among other things but specifically theft of IP.....

Who do you think gives them the schematics/blueprints, technical specifications, tolerances, electrical diagrams, CAD etc....

It is the brand names, MFG industries, whole sellers all over the world in the global economy, you name it. Why you might ask?

If your company does not use the cheap/effective labor found across the pond, another company will and your profits/margins are gone and you fold.

It is simply to cut costs and increase revenue for the owners/hedge funds/investors/shareholders etc.. which in some or all cases includes people like us. Some of us are the shareholders/owners/investors and hence indirectly contribute to the issue because we want those dividends/payments/share prices to increase year over year.

it may not be moral, but that is how the world works.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Hydro

Among other things but specifically theft of IP.....

Who do you think gives them the schematics/blueprints, technical specifications, tolerances, electrical diagrams, CAD etc....

It is the brand names, MFG industries, whole sellers all over the world in the global economy, you name it. Why you might ask?

If your company does not use the cheap/effective labor found across the pond, another company will and your profits/margins are gone and you fold.

It is simply to cut costs and increase revenue for the owners/hedge funds/investors/shareholders etc.. which in some or all cases includes people like us. Some of us are the shareholders/owners/investors and hence indirectly contribute to the issue because we want those dividends/payments/share prices to increase year over year.

it may not be moral, but that is how the world works.

Sadly, you are absolutely correct. This is a major part of it.