How to remove this recalcitrant windlass?

[flightlead404]

2007 Hunter 38. I have what I believe to be a Simpson-Lawrence Sprint 900, but it was right around when Lewmar purchased them and there is at least a Lewmar-branded motor/gearbox. The windlass doesn't exactly match any diagram, Lewmar or SL, but close the the Sprint 900.

I am trying to replace an ancient and corroded bearing. The bearing is retained in the windlass base housing by a very corroded circlip. The shaft in turn is retained in the housing by the shoulder that the bearing rests on. So everything depends on being able to remove the circlip.

I've tried soaking the remains of the circlip in PB Blaster, wailing on it with a hammer and drift, and cursing it liberally in at least four languages. Even tried "wingardium leviosa" with no effect.

Due to being unable to remove the shaft I have extremely limited access to the circlip.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how to remove this?

I've tried unbolting and removing the motor and gearbox from belowdecks. I thought the assembly would slide off the shaft downwards but it moves about 1/2" tops and no further. Any clues?

[Bill O]

You've probably seen this link but I'll add it anyway which may help identify your Simpson-Lawrence windlass (sprint series). https://www.p2marine.com/simpson-law...identification


Can you tell the wattage of your motor? Could it be the sprint atlantic if 700w and it has the right angle motor?

[danstanford]

more cursing...

[capn_billl]

If the old clip is corroded, my suggestion is buy another immediately.

Why immediately?

Because the easiest way to remove the old one is to destroy it.

If the backside of the clip is accessible try to fit a hacksaw blade, or if impossible.

A sharp pointy metal object, and strike a blow with a hammer. The clips are spring steel, and very brittle, if you can get ahold of one of the tabs with a needle nose is another method, and use excessive force until it breaks or bends.

Lot's of PB Blaster, and or WD-40 to loosen the pieces until it comes off.

Banging, and cursing helps also.

Can you unscrew the winch from the boat, and turn it upside down while banging?

[flightlead404]

I've already got all the parts. The access to that clip is as you see it in the picture.

Unless I can get the motor and gearbox off below there's no other access to anything.

I can't get anything off anywhere without a sawzall unless I can either get the clip out in some way or get access to below.

The clip is corroded away, only one "tab end" exists, only one hole to grab.

It is not impressed by banging on it.

[Northernbrewer]

Unless, I'm mistaken (and quite possibly so), there looks to be another circlip on the underside which would allow the shaft to be pulled up from the top.

The previous owner of my Hunter 38 provided me with a manual for a Sprint Atlantic B, which seems to match what is installed. I've attached the exploded view from the manual.

Cheers
--Neil

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Northernbrewer

Unless, I'm mistaken (and quite possibly so), there looks to be another circlip on the underside which would allow the shaft to be pulled up from the top.

The previous owner of my Hunter 38 provided me with a manual for a Sprint Atlantic B, which seems to match what is installed. I've attached the exploded view from the manual.

Cheers
--Neil

Thanks Neil. I had not seen the "B" model. This could be out. The outline drawing of the motor assembly is slightly different but that could be immaterial.

Yes, there's another circlip underneath that I was hoping to access from below.

It still looks to me like the motor/gearbox assembly should just slide off, but it doesn't

[Northernbrewer]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

It still looks to me like the motor/gearbox assembly should just slide off, but it doesn't

Whoops I didn't see that you had already tried to pull the motor off of the shaft from below. I tried last spring in order to rebed, but gave up. It looked to me like there had been a leaky seal at some point and the shaft and key were a bit rusty. My interpretation of the parts drawing is that it should just "slide" off. I'll try again but this time with a puller of some sort. If you have success, let me know!

Cheers
--Neil

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Northernbrewer

Whoops I didn't see that you had already tried to pull the motor off of the shaft from below. I tried last spring in order to rebed, but gave up. It looked to me like there had been a leaky seal at some point and the shaft and key were a bit rusty. My interpretation of the parts drawing is that it should just "slide" off. I'll try again but this time with a puller of some sort. If you have success, let me know!

Cheers
--Neil

I finally got it out this afternoon. Indeed if it was all in good shape it would slide off, but the nature of the corrosion makes it very difficult. A gear puller would work well.

In my case the lower circlip was also corroded and frozen and the inner bearing race was welded to the shaft with corrosion. Took a cutting wheel, torch, and cold chisel to get it off.

Still can't get the upper circlip out of the housing to remove the outer bearing race, which it appears is welded to the housing with corrosion. Will look at it again tomorrow.

I see nothing in the docs about gear oil, but for sure there was some sort of gear oil in my gearbox, and there's definitely a plug in the side that I assume is used for adding oil.

Any clues what a suitable oil would be, as I drained mine out?

Once I've reconditioned it I intend to liberally coat everything with a heavy duty marine wheel bearing grease. I'll also mic out the bearing, circlips, and O rings and keep a couple on hand for spares.

[Northernbrewer]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Any clues what a suitable oil would be, as I drained mine out?

Once I've reconditioned it I intend to liberally coat everything with a heavy duty marine wheel bearing grease. I'll also mic out the bearing, circlips, and O rings and keep a couple on hand for spares.

Thanks for the disassembly update. That's going to make my spring maintenance less stressful.

I would use regular 75W gear oil or maybe lower leg outboard gear oil.

As for grease, I've been using Lewmar or Harken winch grease.

Cheers!
--Neil

[thunderhoof]

Are you using the correct size Circlip pliers? I have found them to be very hard to dislodge without the right tool.The suggestion to attack the clip with a chisel to snap it in two is a good one. Use a sharp tool not much wider than the clip.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by thunderhoof

Are you using the correct size Circlip pliers? I have found them to be very hard to dislodge without the right tool.The suggestion to attack the clip with a chisel to snap it in two is a good one. Use a sharp tool not much wider than the clip.

Yes. I have a large number of various size circlip pliers including internal, external, ratcheting with straight and various angled tips of multiple sizes. I have at least four on the boat.

I'm a "tool guy". My Dad taught me in my pre-teen years:

"A well designed, well made tool is a thing of beauty you'll enjoy using for years to come, a badly designed or poorly made tool is an abomination from hell that you'll curse every time you use it"

As I mentioned above, circlips are so corroded they are practically welded in and the upper one is missing one end so circlip pliers are useless anyway.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Northernbrewer

Thanks for the disassembly update. That's going to make my spring maintenance less stressful.

I would use regular 75W gear oil or maybe lower leg outboard gear oil.

As for grease, I've been using Lewmar or Harken winch grease.

Cheers!
--Neil

FWIW this line of windlasses (windlassii?) are almost designed to allow water intrusion. The seal design is poor. At least with this particular one the motor is at 90 degrees to the shaft. Others in the same line have a vertical motor which almost certainly allows water intrusion to the motor itself.

[Squanderbucks]

For 25 years or so I had a Simpson Lawrence Sririt 1000 windlass that performed pretty well. I replaced a motor once and the seals a couple of times. But the drive gear finally broke last spring just before my annual trip to the Abacos. There are very few parts for these old series units ( all in the series) and it had to be discarded.

In order to replace the seal or grease up the gearbox the entire unit must be dismounted. The shaft does not come out upwards through the capstan. It must be totally dismounted and the gearbox plate removed once turned upside on the bench. Then there are additional clips and roller bearings that prevent the shaft from coming out upwards.

If the seal was leaking then almost certainly the gearbox has water in it and needs cleaning, drying out and re-packing with grease (a lot). Not sure all this is worth the effort on a unit this old. Luckily you may have better luck finding a direct replacement that won't take too much deck modifications.. My deck is 7" thickp and that is why a Vertical unit with the motor vertically mounted was my choice in the first place as the motor could just hang below the capstan through a deck hole.
I only found one unit a Maxwell RC10-12 that had a model for decks that thick ant it required vastly modifying the deck pulpit extension it sets on.


But the Maxwell is a "beast" compared to the old Simpson Lawrence. Job turned out nice. Made my trip on time.