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Old 28-02-2021, 14:35   #121
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by sailores35 View Post
Some talking as if stainless steel is immune from rust. I have replaced glassed in chain plates that on the surface appeared fine. Ever hear of crevice corrosion?

Many people have mentioned it in previous comments: did you read them?
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Old 28-02-2021, 15:50   #122
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Copacabana that could work having the chain plates on the exterior. You would have to notch the top of the teak capping and maybe a nice little teak block to cap where you have cut the old chain plates of with a grinder. Then you could make some chain plate templates out of 6mm MDF. You would need to tape these in their exact position on the outside of the hull so you can drill through the old bolt holes and into the template. Then you can get them made up and bolt them in place with large washers on the inside. I would still want to paint the inside white just so you can see if they are still weeping.
I also noticed the deck is looking very tired and looks like another project in itself.
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Old 28-02-2021, 16:25   #123
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Thanks for noticing the deck. It didn't pass my eye. Just have to prioritize.
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Old 28-02-2021, 20:38   #124
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?



Spent an hour or so with a chisel and hammer.

Looks like a dirty sealing job to me. Brittle resin around the cross members. Some black rubbery sealant around the actual plate. Then just some glass sheet over the whole thing.

The plate is not some highly polished affair. Other than my chisel marks there's grinding marks on the cross member and rough welds.

Some water dribbled from the bottom when I tapped a hole but otherwise I could only find some surface rust on nuts and washers. Threads all shiny on bolts and nuts. Just removed locking nuts and bottom nut to look.

What's the verdict?
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Old 28-02-2021, 20:50   #125
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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What's the verdict?
The crucial part is where it passes through the deck. The below deck sections of these plates don't look any worse than yours.
Don't think you can see that without pulling it.
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Old 28-02-2021, 21:08   #126
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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The crucial part is where it passes through the deck. The below deck sections of these plates don't look any worse than yours.
Don't think you can see that without pulling it.
What boatpoker said +1.
Also you have a lot of chainplate 'encased' in the gunwale - all of which will be highly suspect.

No matter how you look at it, the chainplate has to be removed if you want to know for sure. If you don't want to know, just leave it alone.

Pull it out or do nothing, your choice!
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Old 02-03-2021, 12:19   #127
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

I had a similar problem, so after discussing it with a marine engineer, I just had new chainplates made and attached them outboard on the hull, alla Pacific Seacraft. I drilled right through the old, glassed in plates and added on new backing plates in the interior. Went through a few drill bits in the process.
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Old 02-03-2021, 18:27   #128
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by WaldPinkler View Post


Spent an hour or so with a chisel and hammer.

Looks like a dirty sealing job to me. Brittle resin around the cross members. Some black rubbery sealant around the actual plate. Then just some glass sheet over the whole thing.

The plate is not some highly polished affair. Other than my chisel marks there's grinding marks on the cross member and rough welds.

Some water dribbled from the bottom when I tapped a hole but otherwise I could only find some surface rust on nuts and washers. Threads all shiny on bolts and nuts. Just removed locking nuts and bottom nut to look.

What's the verdict?
Replace them. The other pictures had a lot of rusty water trails. Could be just the bolts, could be the plates. Never really know with stainless chain plates. I've seen plates come out that looked perfect, and snapped easily, rotten from the inside. Not worth the risk of your mast falling down.

On the bright side, your setup looks fairly easy, I'm jealous. Straight with no bends, and they're already bolt on. You could go either external or inside.

IF it were my boat, I would pull the stick, pull the plates, have someone evaluate and do the the glasswork to make sure it's flat or re strengthen the area you pull the glass off of the plates. Set up so it's just bolt on. There are no bends so either have 316 plates made cheapest, SHOULD last another 20+ years.or because they're flat pieces you could make your own bronze plates (may be cheaper than stainless). You can have bronze made as well, I'm curious if chrome plating bronze after fabrication is feasable. More expensive (~double stainless) is titanium. You pretty much don't have to ever worry or wonder if you use bronze or titanium which is piece of mind that's worth extra expense in my book. I would also have external sister plates made for the outside.

In your application you could easily go with external plates, wouldn't change structural loads or anything rig wise. Again piece of mind being able to see them and inspect at will. Don't keep your original plates as backing plates. Pull them out of the glass and replace. That rust came from somewhere and you don't want that cancer spreading to your bolts later. stainless is too inexpensive to not replace in this application, even if it's easier to leave it in. Not worth having your mast come down on your head.

I would only advise Bronze or titanium. Stainless isn't a good material for chain plates. Aluminium bronze bar or sheet is easy to work with if you don't need bends. Not a very long plate so titanium wouldn't cost as much comparatively. I recommend getting quotes for both, talk to a rigger, and mull it over.

Again your setup is really easy, I wish mine were like that.
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Old 02-03-2021, 18:49   #129
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

I have bends at the top of my plates. Aluminium bronze isn't easy to bend, so probably have to ask one of the foundries for a quote. Judging from other forum posts in guesstimating roughly $1400+.

I've had quotes 2018/2019 for water jet cut stainless at $800-1200 for all

I got quotes for titanium in 2019 as well when I was considering switching to external plates. ~ prices and measurements as follows;
Lengths for all ~24" including bends
Thickness was same or just slightly bigger than original 10mm.
Shrouds (double plate) 3.5" or 4" wide $1100 each.
Stays and intermediate backstays, 3 per side, 1.5" wide, $750 each.
Didn't get a quote on backstay. It's 1.5" and external with no bends, maybe 15" long.

After conversation to bolt on (using original plates at the moment, mast is down) intention was to replace shroud and backstay plates to put mast up and then replace the 6 stay/int backstay a pair at a time. Now that I'm in Virginia that plan is changing a bit.

Starting to really consider bronze. Thicker than my original stainless. Maybe hard chromed after, as I don't like the green or brown. Corrosion free like titanium, but not as expensive, and I get to keep the shiny.
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Old 02-03-2021, 19:11   #130
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

A thread where they made their bronze plates. reports are that even aluminium bronze is easy to fabricate and work with. stainless can be a pain to cut and drill I'd have someone make or water jet stainless plates.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app
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Old 02-03-2021, 21:15   #131
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Just a thought: the existing plates, even though encapsulated into a vile environment, have lasted some 30+ years without failure. If you are planning a new installation where they are not encapsulated and can be inspected, seems that plain ole 316 L will outlast you and the rest of the boat. I see no need to upgrade the material (and it is reasonably likely that the old plates were not even 316!).

And FWIW, the bronzes that I have machined haven't been all that easy to work.

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Old 02-03-2021, 21:26   #132
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

I agree Jim, I would just be measuring the old chain plate size and seeing what is close in stainless steel flat bar. That is how I did my chain plates, Bunnings has a DIY metal polishing kit that fits into a drill and I used that to polish the stainless steel.
WaldPinkler make sure you put some nice radius's on the chain plate ends.
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Old 03-03-2021, 18:41   #133
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

It's taken me a day and half to get the back stay plate out, removing ladder and other bits too. It looked pretty **** with rust on the outside but taking it out it looks quite clean. Just surface rust on nuts.

I took the side one down to the rigger a couple of days ago and got his opinion. He buffed it out and there's some small pitting but he said he wouldn't worry about that. He thought 2" x 1/2" bar was more than adequate. I got a second opinion from a marine fabricator who said the same.

The side tabs bent off real easy with the pointless welds on one edge only. I don't think they add much to the structure at all.

I could take out one more side plate to be sure but I really have to get off this mooring.

The next question is rebedding them. The surrounding glass is real rough where I took them out. It's a few layers that covered them then some brittle resin followed by the hull. The plate had rubbery sealant all around the edges. I want to clean that up sometime but have to prioritize getting moving. What sealant should I use and also sealing the top where it passes through the teak rail? I'm thinking I don't need to add more glass, is the hull and bolts enough?.

Opinions on what the next move should be would be appreciated.



Side plate. Scratched a bit from getting sealant out with screwdriver.



Other side of side plate.



Rear plate.



Where rear plate sits.



Polished plates.
Left: rear plate.
Right: side plate with pitting.
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Old 03-03-2021, 19:03   #134
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by WaldPinkler View Post
It's taken me a day and half to get the back stay plate out, removing ladder and other bits too. It looked pretty **** with rust on the outside but taking it out it looks quite clean. Just surface rust on nuts.

I took the side one down to the rigger a couple of days ago and got his opinion. He buffed it out and there's some small pitting but he said he wouldn't worry about that. He thought 2" x 1/2" bar was more than adequate. I got a second opinion from a marine fabricator who said the same.

The side tabs bent off real easy with the pointless welds on one edge only. I don't think they add much to the structure at all.

I could take out one more side plate to be sure but I really have to get off this mooring.

The next question is rebedding them. The surrounding glass is real rough where I took them out. It's a few layers that covered them then some brittle resin followed by the hull. The plate had rubbery sealant all around the edges. I want to clean that up sometime but have to prioritize getting moving. What sealant should I use and also sealing the top where it passes through the teak rail? I'm thinking I don't need to add more glass, is the hull and bolts enough?.

Opinions on what the next move should be would be appreciated.



Side plate. Scratched a bit from getting sealant out with screwdriver.



Other side of side plate.



Rear plate.



Where rear plate sits.



Polished plates.
Left: rear plate.
Right: side plate with pitting.

I'm a big fan of Simpsons adhesive sealant ( I believe that it is now a bostick product ) and I would bed and seal with it.
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Old 03-03-2021, 19:05   #135
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Every one of the pits circled would give me great concern!!!

I am not sure your rigger or fabricator knows enough about crevice corrosion to pass a professional judgement.

You could take it to an NDT aircraft inspector (or similar) and pay for an expert opinion. There will be at least one in Sydney I would think. But it is likely to be quicker and cheaper to make new ones.

You have most of the hard work already - removing them. Why refit a possible suspect item when for a little extra effort, replace them.

It is risk management issue. Unlikely to fail but catastrophic if it does.

You will feel way better in the next gale offshore if you replace them.

Disclaimer - I'm not an expert!
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