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Old 21-02-2021, 07:43   #61
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

From the photos it appears that the chainplates pierce the deck and are then through bolted to the inside of the hull and glassed over.

For sure water has seeped down into the area inside where the chainplates are.

The coffee colored stains indicate a probability of crevice corrosion, and cracking of the chainplate would be unsurprising. This would lead to failure at some point.

A friend had one chain plate like this fail. He started removing the others (6 total) and found cracks or breaks in several.

Yes, grind off the fiberglass as described above and remove the chainplates one by one (if you want to keep the mast up) or remove the mast and take them all out.

These photos how my own issue with chain plates. The cracks on mine were inside of the deck penetration area, but only one side of the boat has the rust stains. I removed it with the mast standing. I also had a backstay chainplate fail completely. Not fun.
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Old 21-02-2021, 09:59   #62
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

IMHO, the most suspect area for potential failure is where the chainplates come through the deck. Here they're oxygen-deprived, potentially wet with salt water, and subject to fatigue from the shrouds shaking when at least a bit loose, on the lee side. Unfortunately, also a very difficult area to inspect or test.
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Old 21-02-2021, 19:05   #63
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldPinkler View Post
I have found some information that says the boat is a Creala 40 from Crealock. Built in the Phillipines. Only 5 made. The Pacific Seacraft was made from these boats. US company not related to that one.
So it is not a Pacific Seacraft boat, https://www.dbyboatsales.com.au/?bdb...lock-40&mode=2
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...0-a-68711.html and it's probably not worth calling Pacific Seacraft in Washington, NC for advice.

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Old 22-02-2021, 03:18   #64
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
If you look at the photo the bolts are nowhere near the fiberglass layup over the chain-plate
Did you encapsulate metal inside of a fiberglass layup? I hope it works well for you. I'm not bold enough to do such a thing myself.
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Old 22-02-2021, 03:47   #65
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
Did you encapsulate metal inside of a fiberglass layup? I hope it works well for you. I'm not bold enough to do such a thing myself.
Ben

I'm not sure what you mean?

Do you mean you don't like the idea of encapsulating metal inside fiberglass OR
You feel you don't have the necessary skills to lay the glass as required?

A job I found technically more challenging was fiber-glassing in all the mounts for the steering pulleys at the quadrant. (There's no YouTube tutorials for doing that!)

I used epoxy to do that job but when I told the expert (with 40 years experience) at Kirkside Resins he said "I would have used Polyester" (but then he said it doesn't matter) If I had to do it again I would use polyester too.
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Old 22-02-2021, 03:58   #66
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

More study of the photos ,those chain plates have cross bars and there will be much glass layered over those from build it would appear that more chopped strand Matt plus resin has been added. My guess to try to stop leaks from deck ,probably a cored deck to go with it .lpease donít play with this ,loosing a rig can be fatal ⛵️⚓️
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Old 22-02-2021, 04:09   #67
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Ps last saw this yacht in Adelaide south Australia at thr Royal SouthAustralian Yacht Squadron, Miss money Penny. ��⚓️
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Old 22-02-2021, 14:23   #68
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Ps last saw this yacht in Adelaide south Australia at thr Royal SouthAustralian Yacht Squadron, Miss money Penny. ��⚓️
Yes, the boat was at Karuah, north of Sydney from the next owner. There is still some faded Port Adelaide writing on the hull.

I'm hoping to get it up to QLD as soon as I can be comfortable with these chainplates. Actually, the insurance probably won't cover the rig since it's on the surveyor report to inspect. A pain since I just left my car and trailer sailer on the street next to a park. I don't want to mess around.
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Old 22-02-2021, 17:35   #69
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Ben

I'm not sure what you mean?

Do you mean you don't like the idea of encapsulating metal inside fiberglass OR
You feel you don't have the necessary skills to lay the glass as required?

A job I found technically more challenging was fiber-glassing in all the mounts for the steering pulleys at the quadrant. (There's no YouTube tutorials for doing that!)

I used epoxy to do that job but when I told the expert (with 40 years experience) at Kirkside Resins he said "I would have used Polyester" (but then he said it doesn't matter) If I had to do it again I would use polyester too.
I mean that I don't like the idea of encapsulating metal inside of fiberglass. Sooner or later the metal will need to be ground out.
To say that I don't have the skills to do it is just a nicer way of saying I think it's foolhardy. Just like I tell people I'm not a good enough sailor to put to sea in a Beneteau. It's about their feelings. I try to be careful of people's feelings.
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Old 22-02-2021, 17:52   #70
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
I mean that I don't like the idea of encapsulating metal inside of fiberglass. Sooner or later the metal will need to be ground out.
To say that I don't have the skills to do it is just a nicer way of saying I think it's foolhardy. Just like I tell people I'm not a good enough sailor to put to sea in a Beneteau. It's about their feelings. I try to be careful of people's feelings.

Ben

Say it as it is! (I'm not easily hurt by another person on these threads)

Most production yachts would have embedded chain plates these days(?) But anyway that does not automatically make it a sound practice. (I don't like fin keels but most production yachts have them)
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Old 22-02-2021, 20:11   #71
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

I recently did this summer 2019, on my passport 42. Also a canoe stern. Depending on the prices for the area your in $5000 discount is likely not enough. San Diego was extremely expensive $14000 plus another$14000 in lay days approximately. I did a crap load of research and almost did it myself twice, and had three different solid plans. This is a common issue for 80's and 90's boats. Irritating and painful job regardless. Found the problem in 2013, didn't get fixed and couldn't sail till 2019. Expense, deployments and planning issues.

You can't leave the stainless in there. You can't just drill through and use the old ones as backing plates. Stainless is only stainless and strong with oxygen. I can almost guarantee that minute amounts of water leaked in around the plate. When I cut mine out there was a pocket of black nasty syrupy water at the bottom of every one. Similar to blister water/fluid. Looked dry before I cut them out.

On the bright side you have bolts in there, you don't have to figure out a bolt pattern. May be as simple as remove bolts and drill through hull. Maybe.

Option 1, external backing plates. Almost went this route even though I have inboard plates, like you. For inspiration on this watch SV Ramble On's videos on their chain plate replacement (series of 4 videos) https://youtu.be/dQVh2lIPRp4

Option 2, other passport owners went this route. The passport chan plate had 2 cross beams welded to it, making kind of a H shape. This is to help anchor it in the glass when it's encapsulated. I don't see this on yours, I believe the bolts serve the same purpose instead. In either case they went with titanium chainplates with a sandblasted finish. Same shape, no welds. Glasses them in place of the originals. Titanium doesn't rust and is suprisingly not that expensive. If your plates use bolts as anchors than this is an easy one for you. I would use epoxy for more strength and maybe wrap carbon threads around and fan out below the plate to spread loads even more.

Option 3, the road I took. 1. Cut out plates with grinder. I can't describe the mess this makes even with the vacuum. Hot outside, and wore a poopy suit. Hard to breath, dust everywhere. The itchiness after, oh God the ichiness! This saved a ton of money vice the yard doing it, probably will get cancer later from all the dust I breathed in. 2. Have yard do glasswork. I had foam core in that part of hull so they have to cut all the way to outer skin than fill in with glass. I had them use G10 as a final layer for a smooth flat surface to bolt plates to. 3. Yard drills holes. This is more important than I originally realized. If you still out and aren't perfectly strait it will be skewed and not be in line outside. They were able to take measurements and make sure bolts were aligned and parallel with each other. After they were done I realized this one aspect would have drove me nuts and looked horrible if it wasn't done right. Worth the money here. 4. You need a backing of some sort so the bolt doesn't get pulled through. Big ass fender washers work. Other boats have them. Problem is our boats were designed for encapsulated plates, not bolt through. To spread the load better I used sister plates instead of fender washer. Like a big chain plate or washer that connects all the bolts. Not as thick as a chain plate 3/16" maybe. Had yard make so they matched the holes.

Technically you can do this with the mast up. Pull one plate at a time. Works if you can get someone to your boat to do the work or doing it yourself. It's very difficult to get all the holes aligned together this way. Was Worth it to pull the mast and do it all at once.

Lastly, these hold up the mast. They need a little engineering and good glasswork to do right. Mistakes could bring the mast down on your head. If the yard does it, then at least the yard is on the hook if things go bad somehow. If you do it it's all on your bank account to fix, if you can fix it. I almost did it myself, but happy and have a little more piece of mind having the yard do it. You have to decide the same.Click image for larger version

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Old 22-02-2021, 20:13   #72
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

Some more photos of encapsulated chain plate conversation to bolt on chainplatesClick image for larger version

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Old 22-02-2021, 20:19   #73
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

I hope that helps. Just trying to show the realistic picture of what you should expect. I think the worst part was trying to figure this all out on my own, and slowly realizing how much this would entail and how much work it was going to be. I don't want to scare you off, it's totally doable. Outside of southern California it won't cost nearly as much as mine cost, And even then there are options if you plan right.

Your plates looked easier actually. If that makes you feel any better. Chin up, get through it best you can, worth it when your sailing again and don't have to worry about the mast falling because of a bad plate.
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Old 22-02-2021, 20:26   #74
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

If you stick with stainless than you absolutely don't want encapsulated plates. May be easier but you still have the same problem in the end. The metal and fiberglass flex, expand in heat contract in cold. If they don't seal it right or the sealant fails than those plates could get eaten up faster than original.

Titanium is the only safe way to go with encapsulated plates. Allied Titanium is the place I was looking at and got a couple quotes.
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Old 22-02-2021, 20:46   #75
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Re: How to fix these buried chainplates?

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Originally Posted by alaskanviking View Post
I hope that helps. Just trying to show the realistic picture of what you should expect. I think the worst part was trying to figure this all out on my own, and slowly realizing how much this would entail and how much work it was going to be. I don't want to scare you off, it's totally doable. Outside of southern California it won't cost nearly as much as mine cost, And even then there are options if you plan right.

Your plates looked easier actually. If that makes you feel any better. Chin up, get through it best you can, worth it when your sailing again and don't have to worry about the mast falling because of a bad plate.

That looks like a great job: well done!

As I said in an earlier post if my encapsulated chain-plates need replacing I will do just as you have done. To grind out the existing chain-plates and replace them with another set of encapsulated chain-plates is more than I could handle.

I had a chuckle when I read "I think the worst part was trying to figure this all out on my own, and slowly realizing how much this would entail and how much work it was going to be".

A number of times when building my yacht I've gone to the "experts" for advice and either drew a blank or got advice which was just plain wrong.

When I was designing the steering system none of the experts had a clue: I had to sort it out myself. Just one instance was when I showed a rigging expert I could turn a "V" belt pulley into a cable pulley he grabbed the pulley, had a close look and his jaw dropped!. When I tried to be the devil's advocate and said "it wouldn't be strong enough though" he said it would be fine.


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