Hatch rebuilds for 78 Hunter 27

[SailingFan]

Ok, everyone, I have some odd questions.

I finally am getting over all the medical garbage, and am now wanting to move forward on my vessel refit/reconstruction.

In that light, I have a couple issues with ports and a hatch. The hatch first. Here is a pic of the vessel from starboard, I apologize I don't have the hatch photo though... HUNTER 27 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

This one shows the hatch, a little, but this hatch is not exactly the same as mine, which is smooth and does not have that ribbed appearance. Mine looks like glass, not this flimsy-looking plastic cover on the factory advertised vessel. The port lights look right however.




Forward Hatch

My vessel has a trapezoidal Vee Berth hatch, and it is one of those Gray/Pompanette arrangements from Tampa or St. Petersburg, Florida. The smooth lens is dark (but clear) and intact (unscratched), but the plastic ring around it is cracked all to heck. It leaks like a sieve unless I silicone it shut, but then I cannot get air through the hull, and I want access to the hatch (for dropping sails into the berth) and preferably retain the optional light and breeze that opening it allows.

I am considering three options for the hatch:

a) making a new frame from epoxy and glass cloth, then installing the original window into it, but am concerned that the frame will eventually have the same weakness potential, AND that I will have to figure out a way to hinge it. Sealing would be simply a matter of ensuring the mould includes profile for that, and installing gasketing and some sort of locking mechanism, maybe multiple dogs? I could face the hatch opening aft for additional security, but it would probably make loading sails in harder, and offer more snags, so...

b) getting the new version of some hatch that (hopefully) fits the hole, and if I recall, someone here said that Bomar makes something that fits with some hole "adjustment" but the cost for that may be too high relative to my quite difficult budget, so this is less likely a solution I can afford. I cannot put $200 US into a hatch. If that is the answer, I have to do something else (I have attracted the Admiral's eye with this boat refit).

c) make a new hatch from some sort of wood material (? I have all the tools and skills needed for this, but looks may be...off...against a plastic classic boat hull!), then arrange some sort of watertight heavy duty window on the outside surface if I can ensure it will be strong, but then I still have to make sure it will seal. Dogs of some sort would be used to lock the hatch closed, and a sliding rod would hold it open as needed, perhaps even the rod that is currently and factory installed (assuming this hatch was factory, of course). If looks were too different, I could perhaps glass the wood and apply a deck coating that I am going to otherwise use over the remainder of the deck, making it at least appear to "fit" in...

Port Lights

For the port lights the problems are similar. However, all port lights are crazed and yellowed, some to the point of blocking vision almost entirely, and the outer window shade rings are all cracked and probably should be replaced as well. For the permanently closed windows, I could just take out the current window material and install Lexan or some such into the same space, reseal, make and install new rings from epoxy or polyester and glass during the process, bed in butyl, and all is well. Those are not so bad an issue. I may even be able to make some open, which could be of real benefit.

The more severe problem port lights are those that currently are designed to open, but the lenses are literally yellowed, crumbling apart and severely cracked and refuse to seal without silicone (again). If I attempt to create those, I will have to figure out hinges and locking mechanisms on wood frames, and I am unsure how well that will work in a broadside wave. I know I would rather not put over a hundred dollars US into each of those smaller windows, and the large ones have to be at least three times that cost (thus the intention to just reseat those large ones with new lens material, if I can figure out what won't get cracked quickly).

I am considering fabricating all these in wood, fiberglass, epoxy, or Lexan (or some such) and making everything closable, but am not sure how much force or marine environment Plexiglas or something like Lexan can take without turning back into the same crap that is currently in place.

I did see someone with very dark Plexiglas ports on his sailboat and he just used black silicone sealant and stainless bolts to install the non-opening Plexiglas windows, then put a turbine attic cooler on the forward hatch (it looked somewhat "redneck" to me, but who am I to judge the cooling method, his boat is cool, mine is a sauna).. I just don't want to have water coming in, birds and bugs invading, and the neighbors listening to me practice my guitar (poorly) while I languish in mold spores and soggy groceries.

His port lights looked cool because of the black internal color around the periphery and the clear lenses they created, and the silver color of the machine screw heads against the black interior seal really stood out. They surely would be sealed well, it would seem, but how is UV against that black silicone? I think he used the stuff I used on my ill fated oil pan change-out...

Ideas? What has worked for you on ports and hatches, or did you just go and buy direct replacements and go back to stock/install factory upgrades?



On edit: I attempted to add a picture since the photobucket I had of my vessel would not load - yes, I read the notification, and yes, it still would not load there either (and I am probably about half stupid right now, it is 6:45 AM and I have not been to bed yet...)

[SailingFan]

Ah. Of course. No photo... Yay....

[SailingFan]

OK, let's see if I got the attachment right. This should be the hatch from above and forward. Note (if it shows) it is trapezoidal...

[rognvald]

SF,
If you want to save money, remove the old hatch with Debond, clean the opening and check the hatch and opening for any previous errors/problems with construction. Remedy the problems if they exist and rebed the new hatch with Boatlife Polysulfide caulk. It is more than likely you just need to rebed your old hatch. I hope this helps.

[Calif.Ted]

try hatchmasters, for directions, parts or service of your hatches.
https://hatchmasters.com/

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by rognvald

SF,
If you want to save money, remove the old hatch with Debond, clean the opening and check the hatch and opening for any previous errors/problems with construction. Remedy the problems if they exist and rebed the new hatch with Boatlife Polysulfide caulk. It is more than likely you just need to rebed your old hatch. I hope this helps.

I sure wish this were so.. The hatch frame itself (the part around the window material insert) is broken in multiple places, cracks going from the window to the outer edge, and the thereby fractured "ring" holds the window in place, but little else (other than all the duct tape I had to apply this summer to hold it together during our storm season on the hard).

I will hunt down this caulk you are speaking of, though, because I do have some bedding of things to do here and there on deck. Thanks!

[Rookie Oldster]

I have the same boat. the same year. None of my hatches or ports leaked much if at all, but the exterior frame of four opening ports were were fragile and prone to breaking off in ways that left sharp edges at ankle height. I replaced them this spring with stainless ports from New Found Metals in Port Townsend.

I was originally going to buy the OEM replacements, then I was going to buy the plastic/metal ones from New found Metals. They talked me into the stainless ports with a healthy discount. No regrets. I did the install with a mismash of techniques somewhat between the manufacturers recommendation and Maine Sail's installation technique. No regrets. The hatch and the fixed salon ports will come later. Probably send the parts to Hatch Masters.

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

try hatchmasters, for directions, parts or service of your hatches.
https://hatchmasters.com/

Ok, now that last video on hatch replacement at this site shows my issue for the hatch. The LID itself is cracked, the window itself is perfectly fine. The base for the hatch is fine as well, but could be replaced if I wanted to. It is bedded perfectly and does not leak, only the lid ring itself leaks, and then only if I break the seal of black silicone I put under it when I closed it up pending a repair of some sort. It is the lid ring itself that is leaking, not the hatch bedding portion. Thanks for the video, it shows exactly what part I am talking about when it shows how to remove the hinge pins between the lid (the part of mine that is cracked) and the base ring (the part that is bedded into the cabin roof and while it has some broken plastic bits that have absolutely nothing to do with seal or closure, I could potentially use it over again if I could source or manufacture a new lid). Mine is a low to medium profile hatch, and it is a trapezoid.

I am saving this link, thanks! They have some seals and other things of interest!

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by Rookie Oldster

I have the same boat. the same year. None of my hatches or ports leaked much if at all, but the exterior frame of four opening ports were were fragile and prone to breaking off in ways that left sharp edges at ankle height. I replaced them this spring with stainless ports from New Found Metals in Port Townsend.

I was originally going to buy the OEM replacements, then I was going to buy the plastic/metal ones from New found Metals. They talked me into the stainless ports with a healthy discount. No regrets. I did the install with a mismash of techniques somewhat between the manufacturers recommendation and Maine Sail's installation technique. No regrets. The hatch and the fixed salon ports will come later. Probably send the parts to Hatch Masters.

Yes, my exterior sunshade frames are all chipping away too! I think the UV is finally getting to them, and the lenses are all turning yellow and crazed as can be. I will take a look for New Found Metals online and see what they have.

I did not see a price quote for Hatch Masters, but they did list a phone number that I can call in the daytime to figure out what the costs would be. I am unsure how much I want to put into this vessel because I am staring a repower square in the face - the SB8 oil pan has to be either replaced, remade, or somehow repaired, and I am not finding any of them online. The one sold to me as an excellent condition SB8 pan apparently fits the 12, not the 8!!! The SB8 pan has 9 mounting holes, and I stopped counting at 10 for the newer pan. Too bad, too, it sure is a pretty newer pan and it cost me plenty.

[Rookie Oldster]

I was lucky. mine had previously been repowered with a Yanmar 2GM20F. About twice the power.

[SailingFan]

Yeah, I have been trying to decide if I want to somehow fabricate another oilpan from folding sheet metal and try that, or if I should just bite the bullet and start saving pennies for a 14-20 HP engine that needs a rebuild, then after shelling out that thousand dollars, put THAT engine in, selling this one as parts for someone else.

It has a new alternator and starter, each has never been run on the engine, and the valves and valve springs are new, piston is in good shape, it really just is underpowered for the application and needs an oil pan... It pains me to even consider that on a vessel I am not wanting to retire on but to just utilize to get my bearings back again. I really want something perhaps 5-10 feet longer!

Anyway, I am not sure if repowering will be of sufficient benefit that it would be worth the effort and cost on a 1978 Hunter. I am even considering just patching up the other issues, and using her up until I find that "special" one, the one that is THE one, and moving forward from there, trading this one for some gizmo to use on the next, and letting someone else deal with restoring her to their own version of glory, if that is their desire. If I do that, the repower would be good money after not as good money, and a bit of a waste, given what so many people think of Hunters in general today. Still, it is a Cherubini design (here it goes, they are gonna pile on us now!)...

If it were just me, though, no wife, this vessel is large enough to do what I would want to do. I am not nearly so attached to physical "stuff" as she is!
I could stay with this one and be ok with it. At that point, the repower makes great sense, but maybe I will do that when I sell off all my land-based life and use that to get the engine? I don't know. I have to get the hatch and ports done first, though, regardless. I can leave the ports if I must, I would just have to seal them to not open, but the hatch is pretty mandatory, I think. It is a sauna in there and moving sails onto the foredeck and back below again will be a real pain in the butt if there is no available opening hatch.

[UNCIVILIZED]

You can build your own hatch if you're so inclined. Have a look at the ones on some of the Ericsons, like the older 35' & 39'. And while I'm not a big fan of their boxy look, that itself is easy enough to change if you're at all good with tools. Think beveling the edges via a table saw, & routering the edges to the desired shape.

Though realistically, you're likely to spend almost as much in building a hatch as you will if/when you find a good deal on one that's either been gently used, or is NOS - new (but) old stock. Meaning that it's never been used, & has just been parked on a shelf for ages. Plus it'll be stronger, more watertight, & have more features. Such as the ability to leave it locked, but partially open. As with many you can do this, leaving about a 1" air gap on 3 sides of the hatch for ventillation.

Start looking around at various 2nd hand & surplus shops. Both for ports, & deck hatches. They're more deals to be had than you can ever use, if you hunt hard.

On your port lights. You can make some sharp looking, fixed ones, buy bonding the lexan/acrylic directly to the cabin sides. Of late, VHB tape is the hot item for doing this. And you can find lots of threads on how to replace said hardware by using the search function here.
Also, ensure to use glazing that has UV coatings, including on any exposed edges.

Also, post some hardware wanted ads. Here, in the appropriate section, & everywhere else you can think up. Including paper type bulletin boards at marinas & YC's. As LOTS of people have spare/old hardware that could use a new home. Sometimes to include boaters who have perfectly nice stuff, but are just "remodeling". So for them, any $ that they can get by selling the old stuff is simply a bonus. And if they're selling 8 ports, but you only need 6, buy'em all. You'll get a better deal, & it won't be hard to find a home or use for the spares.

PS: Whatever you do, DO NOT mount a fan or ventillator in a hatch that's over top of a bunk. It'll forever be a source of leaks. And there's plenty of deck space to mount them elsewhere.
You might sell the admiral on the cost of a new hatch if she knows that it means a dry v-berth & better ventilation for same.

I put a solar powered one in the main cabin deck, as well as just above the stove in my galley, & LOVED them. Which the one in the galley will remove more moisture than it'll ever let in in all but an F9 storm. And it's easy enough to put in the deck plate to seal them up on questionable weather days.

[SailingFan]

Uncivilized,

I think I will look into your suggestion about combing the docks and asking around at the yards. Heck, she is on the hard right now, and there are a ton of new arrivals around right now. Who knows?

I have been watching ebay and craigslist too but no luck yet. Still, I am hopeful.

I will have to check into that tape you were speaking of.

I am still hunting many things, and there is a place in St. Augustine that is supposed to have everything salvageable from a boat but I have not been there. I know where the shop is, but have not been able to make the trip. Maybe time for that has come because this is starting to be a larger list of stuff than it started out as!

[rognvald]

SF,
I am very familiar with the hatch on a H27. My advice to you is to buy a quality Aluminum hatch. Although, initially, the cost seems prohibitive, if you maintain the glass and frame properly, they can last 30 years. I have 3 of my original Bomar hatches on my boat. They are 27 years old and in perfect condition. The original hatches on your H27 were not made for longevity. I hope this helps. Best, Rognvald P.S. finding a used one will be very difficult.

[SailingFan]

Rognvald, thanks for your reply.

The scarcity is definitely apparent from what I have found to date. I am still trying to determine how much I want to put into this vessel, though, as already stated. I am fighting a damaged oilpan as well, and will have to either come up with a way to repair it or replace/remanufacture an oilpan before I can crank the engine over. I have an outboard, and have used it with this vessel, but when the waves are up or other boats are around, it is a sore second place to an inboard where the prop stays under the water.

Still, the vessel is worth at least considering a hatch repair, or at least sealing it up and adding dorades I suppose (or a second hatch and some cabin top reinforcement maybe?).