Ham Radio HF antenna

[windcree]

I have a Pearson 28 and interested in trying to use the rigging as an antenna for HF Bands. I'm wondering if any Ham radio sailors have tried this and if there are any suggestions.



I need to check things with a meter but my first idea is to load the top rigging and use the toe rail as a counterpoise.

[transmitterdan]

Lots of boats use the backstay as an antenna.

But you’ll have to explain more of your idea to get any considered responses.

The ocean is a pretty good counterpoise.

[Excalibur5]

The tried and true method is to add an insulator top and bottom in your backstay, and that becomes the radiating element (antenna). Then you install copper foil or copper mesh glued inside the glass of your hull under the waterline to form the counterpoise.

There are other ways to "skin the cat" such as using a whip antenna (but it may have issues not working on certain bands) and a slip over the backstay antenna wire, and a KISS counterpoise in the bilge.

Bottom line, be sure to get GOOD wire connections, be sure to not electrify the whole rig (insulators are very important!)

[Jim Cate]

Bottom line, be sure to get GOOD wire connections, be sure to not electrify the whole rig (insulators are very important!)

Well, I've been using the entire rig as a random length wire now for over thirty years on the two boats we've cruised on. NO insulators other than the hull. And it seems to get similar signal reports to other boats with insulated backstay antennas anchored nearby. In both boats we've used the fin keel as the counterpoise. Works from 80 to 10 m and on the few marine frequencies that we've tried it on.

So, for the OP, your idea will likely work. I use a manual tuner and it will match reasonably well. I don't know if an auto tuner will do as well.

I also do not maintain that this is the best possible setup for a marine mobile ham, but it surely is the simplest!

Jim N9GFT/VK4GFT

[windcree]

Yea should have been a little clearer. Not cutting the back stay. Not looking for the BEST option.. Looking for a useable antenna. Use probably 40 meters but other bands would a bonus. So I need to check for interation (read connection ) between rigging and life lines. Than connect the primary to an inside fitting for one of the stays. The counter poise I was thinking of two options. The stern ladder or the toe rails bonded together.

I'm going to be testing this with my analyser. And take it from there. Remember I'm talking Ham bands not Marine SSB
Thanks much

[windcree]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, I've been using the entire rig as a random length wire now for over thirty years on the two boats we've cruised on. NO insulators other than the hull. And it seems to get similar signal reports to other boats with insulated backstay antennas anchored nearby. In both boats we've used the fin keel as the counterpoise. Works from 80 to 10 m and on the few marine frequencies that we've tried it on.

So, for the OP, your idea will likely work. I use a manual tuner and it will match reasonably well. I don't know if an auto tuner will do as well.

I also do not maintain that this is the best possible setup for a marine mobile ham, but it surely is the simplest!

Jim N9GFT/VK4GFT

Thanks.. this is what I was looking for. What size is your boat but more important were do you load the rigging? I was thinking of the keel as a counter poise but wasn't sure. That sounds like a good idea..

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by windcree

Thanks.. this is what I was looking for. What size is your boat but more important were do you load the rigging? I was thinking of the keel as a counter poise but wasn't sure. That sounds like a good idea..

I’ve been trying the whole rig option as well, with our stainless water tank as a counterpoise.

I’m using an mfj-939 auto tuner, it’s able to achieve 1:1 most of the time but I don’t believe my rig is a good radiator. I’ve yet to make a contact with it.

On the other hand, a home made off center dipole with a 4:1 balun hanging from the mast with the leads in an inverted V configuration has been working really well.

Matt
KI5HGA
WDG9805

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by windcree

Thanks.. this is what I was looking for. What size is your boat but more important were do you load the rigging? I was thinking of the keel as a counter poise but wasn't sure. That sounds like a good idea..

OK, previous boat was an old IOR one-tonner, 36 ft LOA. On that one I fed the backstay chainplate in the lazarette with a feed line from the tuner that was about 8 feet long from the tuner.

On our current boat, 46 feet LOA, I feed a shroud chainplate that is only about two feet from the tuner.

Incidentally, I've had the mast base grounded to the keel at times for lightning protection, and while it does change the tuner settings, no noticeable difference in radiation results as far as I can tell.

I connect the "ground" terminal on the MFJ manual tuner to a keel bolt with a 75 mm copper strap, but separated by a blocking capacitor to avoid any DC stray currents.

I've had various folks tell me what a bad idea this is, including a chap in London that I was working from Tahiti... said it couldn't possibly work!

73,

Jim

[windcree]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I’ve been trying the whole rig option as well, with our stainless water tank as a counterpoise.

I’m using an mfj-939 auto tuner, it’s able to achieve 1:1 most of the time but I don’t believe my rig is a good radiator. I’ve yet to make a contact with it.

On the other hand, a home made off center dipole with a 4:1 balun hanging from the mast with the leads in an inverted V configuration has been working really well.

Matt
KI5HGA
WDG9805

Curious Matt, what is the length of the off center dipole? But it makes think I may just use a simple 40 meter dipole run up the mast and run the legs down the shrouds. Only problem I see is the extreme angle of the inverted V.


Well all these ideas are really helping .. THANKS ALL.

[Moontide]

Didn't read all the responses so maybe this option has already been covered.


What I did, and is probably the easiest, is to get some (I think) GTO15 or GTO 22? wire (antenna wire) and run it up on a halyard. I also use a KISS for the counterpoise. Some doing this even pull the core out of some line and use the cover over the wire. I didn't do that and no problems after several years. I do zip tie it to some heavy cord to take the load off the wire.



I'm not a ham, but friends who are have talked to Europe and Russia on it from So Cal.



I used it for wx on the west coast of Central America and the Atlantic with fine reception.



Many other ways to do it, and maybe not right for you if you want something more permanent, but it is simple and works.



Bill

[PNWSalmon]

Using the GAM/McKim split lead back stay antenna and the kiss counterpoise on our boat. It’s working as well as our old setup with back stay insulators and ground plate.


Why did we switch ? We re-rigged and I didn’t want the expense of the insulators, nor the cut backstay. The split lead is brilliant and easy. As to the counterpoise, the copper strip in the boat has deteriorated. It would be a pain in the knees to replace it all or patch it. The kiss has been great.

It’s controversial I guess, but I get all the contacts I want and the weather so I don’t get the controversy.

[roverhi]

You can use a wire run up the backstay for an antenna. Cut short lengths, 1" or less, of small diameter PVC or other plastic pipe as insulating stand offs. Zip tie the wire and pipe to the back or other stay. Run the antenna wire from the tuner and up the stay and Bob's your uncle.

If you want long distance communications, the 20 meter band is the one you'll most likely be using. Talked daily from French Polynesia to the West Coast and occasionally had contacts from the Caribbean and East/Central US. With a tall enough mast, boats longer than 33' feet or so, you can run an optimum length wire and maybe even get by without a tuner. 40 meters is the next most used band and good for regional communications in the daytime. We had an informal net that covered the whole expanse of the FP from the Marquesas to Tonga but would definitely need a tuner. Didn't try very hard but never had any luck with higher or lower bands than those two.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Moontide

What I did, and is probably the easiest, is to get some (I think) GTO15 or GTO 22? wire (antenna wire) and run it up on a halyard. I also use a KISS for the counterpoise. Some doing this even pull the core out of some line and use the cover over the wire. I didn't do that and no problems after several years. I do zip tie it to some heavy cord to take the load off the wire.
Bill

GTO wire is not needed for an antenna. It is insulated for high voltage - it's original purpose was for electric ignition of oil heater burners. Almost any wire will do. For a 100 watt transmitter 16 ga or heavier wire is fine. Wire stretch and strength is more of an issue than electrical properties.

The KISS grounding system is a snake oil solution for a counterpoise. Run some flat copper to a keel bolt for a good counterpoise. A lot of research has been done on the KISS. GOOGLE it. You would be just as well off laying an ordinary piece of wire in your bilge. And BTW, flat copper surface area it what counts, not how thin it is. Ignore those people who tell you it has to be super thin. Super this just means it will corrode away quickly in a marine environment.

There is a lot of mysticism about marine antenna installation and a lot of people selling high priced products that are no better than commonly available materials.

Sea water makes a great counterpoise. Even hanging some flat copper over the side can make an effective ground. A keel bolt to an external keel works well.

I use an automatic antenna tuner but for casual use a manual one does the same thing. The automatic just makes band changing much faster.

I have operated Ham and Marine SSB on board since the early '90s. Good practices for electrical connections and standard RF principles will get you very far. That and understanding radio propagation are what you need to operate successfully.

Brian N7BMW

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I’ve been trying the whole rig option as well, with our stainless water tank as a counterpoise.

I’m using an mfj-939 auto tuner, it’s able to achieve 1:1 most of the time but I don’t believe my rig is a good radiator. I’ve yet to make a contact with it.

On the other hand, a home made off center dipole with a 4:1 balun hanging from the mast with the leads in an inverted V configuration has been working really well.

Matt
KI5HGA
WDG9805

Hi Matt, with something like an OCF up a mast on a boat, does one still need to rig a counterpoise? I am a new HAM and never 'played radio' on a boat before. My current boat is also quite small so I am not sure how an inverted OCF would play with the mast height only being 24' above deck and me needing to rig something to capture enough wire in the hypotenuse of each triangle.

PS Just saw Brian's comments above too

[Scubaseas]

No idea if this matters or not but it's likely your (metal) mast step is lag bolted directly into your keel if your vintage Pearson is anything like my 1980 P323.