Gas Fitting on Stove - Help !

[donradcliffe]

Remember that he is in France, the land of the metric fitting, and his stove is probably not metric. You may have a hard time finding the right ferrule--it might have been simpler to cut off the old tube and ferrule and use a clamped hose between it and the new tube until you get to a country with the right stuff. Have fun with this project.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Remember that he is in France, the land of the metric fitting, and his stove is probably not metric. You may have a hard time finding the right ferrule--it might have been simpler to cut off the old tube and ferrule and use a clamped hose between it and the new tube until you get to a country with the right stuff. Have fun with this project.

The oven is French. On a French built boat. So it shouldnt be a problem.

On the internet I have seen some flaring tools for $7; $25; $55 and $90 so there is a range, I can buy a cheap one and learn. Its only a one off job so a cheap one should suffice.

I thought the Ferrule insde the nut just squeezes on and thus being gas-tight, but the actual tube needs to be flared?

So I put the nut and ferrule on, slide them up a bit (not much space to do that) and then flare the end of the tube so the can't come off and then tighten the nut and bolt??

I thought this would be so frikkin easy! I'g getting annouyed .... must be because I am missing my morning and afternnon coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I thought this would be so frikkin easy! I'g getting annouyed .... must be because I am missing my morning and afternnon coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark

If you want to be sure do drink coffee without blowing up your neighbors, your family, your boat, or yourself (in that order) in the weeks to come just get an expert; that was my first (I thought easy) advice.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sigmasailor

If you want to be sure do drink coffee without blowing up your neighbors, your family, your boat, or yourself (in that order) in the weeks to come just get an expert; that was my first (I thought easy) advice.

You pay for it and I will.

If I got an expert for everything on the boat I would still be at home.

But I understand your sentiment. If I had some money I would.




Mark

[sabray]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The oven is French. On a French built boat. So it shouldnt be a problem.

On the internet I have seen some flaring tools for $7; $25; $55 and $90 so there is a range, I can buy a cheap one and learn. Its only a one off job so a cheap one should suffice.

I thought the Ferrule insde the nut just squeezes on and thus being gas-tight, but the actual tube needs to be flared?

So I put the nut and ferrule on, slide them up a bit (not much space to do that) and then flare the end of the tube so the can't come off and then tighten the nut and bolt??

I thought this would be so frikkin easy! I'g getting annouyed .... must be because I am missing my morning and afternnon coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark

Maybe some pics of all the fittings you have. Flared fittings and ferruled fittings are 2 different sorts not mixed. Things You'll Need:

• Flare nut
• Flaring tool
• Copper tubing
• Wrenches
• Tube cutter

1. 1
   Cut the end of the tubing square using a hacksaw or a tube cutter.
2. 2
   Slip the flare nut onto the end of the copper pipe. Move it back out of the way to allow for working room.
3. 3
   Place the base of the flaring tool around the copper tube at the appropriate diameter size.
4. 4
   Attach the flare cone over the copper tube opening using the screw fitting. Tighten this down until the cone is firmly seated inside the vise base.
5. 5
   Remove the copper tubing from the base and examine the ends for splits. Bring the nut back up to the end of the flared tubing.
6. 6
   Verify that it fits snugly in the bottom of the nut. It will still be loose at this time. Now you are ready to attach the end of the flared copper tubing nut to the end of the threaded nipple. Do so.
7. 7
   Pressurize the line and check for leaks.

Read more: How to Install Copper Tubing Flare Fittings | eHow.com How to Install Copper Tubing Flare Fittings | eHow.com
ferrule fittings are different requirig the ferrule thing you described earlier. You probably had a piece of flex at the stove fitting attached to the hard copper. It would thread into the stove one side (usa we would call that npt) and attach to a fiitting on the copper on the other. Usually a flared fitting but maybe ferrule. I think you gout the idea of the ferrule. Both create a fitted compression that mates to the joining surface. It sounded like you needed the ferrel from your first post. Dont need an expert just make sure you got the right fittings a flare tool is easy and cheap.

[sigmasailor]

Gas (as in propane) is the single most dangerous stuff on your boat (gazoline/petrol for the outboard is number two but I hope you keep this outside in a well ventilated space).
If it settles you do not smell it; you will know it leaked when all of a sudden you're deck is all gone when all you did was heat water for your coffee......
I feel your pain but am lucky enough to have been trained as a marine engineer (merchant navy); I always try to fix everything myself too but am more or less aware of my limits (often too late I must admit ).

Good luck, happy sailing and lots of (safe) coffee.

Eric

[sabray]

I agree propane is dangerous. If you choose the right fittings the assembly of the system is done by tightening nuts. If you can screw a regulator onto a propane tank you have the basic skills to tighten a ferrule fitting or a flare fitting. I upgraded and installed propane hose I think it cost about $ 80 from the regulator to the stove. But I have done what Mark is trying using copper and flare fittings. Check the fittings and reinspect often. Turn the tank off when its not being used.

[MarkJ]

The place where I will buy the Ferrule is a gas service shop. I have been there before when getting my European gas regulator.
I will take in the old parts and my camera and he can show me how it all works.
If I need to flare the tube he will know.



We had fun last time. He doesn't speak English and I can only ask for One Loaf of Bread, Please.

Thanks for everyones help

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

We had fun last time. He doesn't speak English and I can only ask for One Loaf of Bread, Please.

Thanks for everyones help

Ask for 'deux pression' next time when you're in a bar and be surprised.....

[MarkJ]

I found this information piece on EHow, and even though its for a plastic hose it expalins it just the way I am thinking even though I am using a metal tube.

"the brass ferrule will crimp around the plastic tube and seal."



How to Use a Brass Ferrule for Polyethylene Tubing | eHow.com

[wadda]

Originally Posted by Boracay

It's possible that you need a flare fitting on your plain tube. These need proper tools and may be tricky to get right but when complete would give the best possible permanent connection.

from the picture it's setup for a compression fitting. Compression/flare? which is better?

I have a preference for flares, but data indicates at the appliance end it's 5 of one half dozen of the other (yes, I said five).

The problem with flares is people tend to no do them right...and it takes a flaring tool. But when they have a flaring tool they tend to try too hard to make a real good flare and squish the bajeebers out of the flare leaving nothing for the male fitting to form into. The other thing is they will use teflon tape or some goop...not necessary and often counter productive

Originally Posted by Boracay

I know it might cost a few schillings but I most strongly recommend that you get a qualified gas fitter to do the connection.

Sure, pay me 50 bucks to do something that will take 2 minutes and that any thinking person can do.

Originally Posted by Boracay

Despite comments to the contrary gas collecting in the bilge of a boat is invisible and may not be noticeable by it's smell.

I don't know of anyone who stated that propane is visible, nor that an explosive level (2-10% propane/air) of propane would not be within range of an ignition source but out of range of a nose.

I did say that it doesn't stay in the bilge....well, unless you close it up. But my bilge is vented. Whose isn't? It won't stay.

Moreover, and this is just going from the few galleys I've seen...a small leak on an end use appliance in a ventilated galley, like the ones I've seen. It would not present a problem. It won't 'go to the bilge' and fill it up like a leaky tap. It still needs to be fixed, but you don't have to think about shopping for caskets....and before anyone can sputter; if it can make a flame when you hold a match to it; it's not small. If it blows out the match it's really not small.

Originally Posted by Boracay

The explosive power of even a tiny amount of gas inside a boat is catastrophic and can easily destroy the boat and kill any people inside and in the immediate vicinity. The ensuing fire among close packed boats in a marina is difficult to controll and can destroy numerous other boats.

...it's a wonder they even sell it to mere mortals let alone put it where people live.

There's a difference in being careful and being fearful.

[osirissail]

Two things to check - one - your stove may have "imperial" dimension piping and the hardware store may only have "metric" fittings. So that would explain why the ferrule doesn't fit.
- - Second, Europe uses primarily a Butane mixture and Propane is sometimes available - but I really don't think you will notice the difference while flying through the air after a leak ignites and blows up your boat.
- - It appears the new stove has only a straight piece of pipe/tubing to attach your gas supply line. I am assuming that the pipe on the stove will slide neatly into the end of the hose fitting in your post #7 and then the cap nut will tighten down on the new ferrule.
- - If it does not do that than make an adaptor that will attach to the stove supply pipe/tube and then connect to the boat supply hose. This is the tricky part as you have to mix and match parts so that everything is "gas tight".
- - Worse comes to worse you can cut off the fitting on the end of the boat supply hose, shove the hose over the stove inlet pipe and use double hose clamps to finish the connection. Just be sure that there is enough free boat supply hose that the tilting of the stove does not pull on the boat supply hose.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I found this information piece on EHow, and even though its for a plastic hose it expalins it just the way I am thinking even though I am using a metal tube.

"the brass ferrule will crimp around the plastic tube and seal."



How to Use a Brass Ferrule for Polyethylene Tubing | eHow.com

One thing they didn't mention with plastic tube is there should be a thin metal sleeve that goes inside the plastic to keep it from crushing and so the ferrel will seal on the outside of the tube.

It sure seems you have been getting a lot of bad info here. What's with the flare tool and crap. Here are some pictures.

1) This is a flared type of fitting, which you don't have. So ignore it and move on.

2) These are the components for a ferrel set up. Except the left side is your hose.

3) Put the nut and then the ferrel on the tube

4) insert the tubing into the mating part as far as it will go.

5) Slide the nut and ferrel down the tube and screw on the nut. Tighten it fairly snug but not too tight.


You can turn on the gas with the burners off and check for leaks using some soapy water in a spray bottle. If the bubbles don't grow then your good. If they do grow then tighten the fitting a bit more.
And you should do a bubble test to all you connections all the way to and including the propane bottle. this should be a monthly inspection as well!

Hope this helps!

[Boracay]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The place where I will buy the Ferrule is a gas service shop. I have been there before when getting my European gas regulator.
I will take in the old parts and my camera and he can show me how it all works.
If I need to flare the tube he will know.

It may be possible to unbolt the tube from the stove and take it to your mate. Or it may be possible to unbolt lots of heavy bits from the stove (they are not that heavy) and take it to your mate.

Either way, if they can do the connection for you it may be cheap and reliable.

While you're in the gas shop see if you can pick up a pressure gauge to go after the reducer/regulator on top of your tank if you don't have one already. Don't forget the sealant gunk. Then every time you turn the gas off you can check for leaks. (If the pressure stays high - OK? If it goes down as you watch - not OK.)

[wadda]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Sir: the only "nonsense" here is being purveyed by you!

I am a firefighter... I've been one for 23 years. Propane has a vapor density (or weight) that is 1.52 that of air. Meaning it is 1.5 times HEAVIER THAN AIR! IT WILL SETTLE IN LOW PLACES AND WILL NOT DISSIPATE UNLESS DILUTED BY ANOTHER MOVING GAS! A combination of 2.5 to 9.6% in air is explosive. Worse yet it is an asphyxiant which is colorless and odorless unless an odorant is added.

Hydrogen is the lightest element, and will not "settle" in air; it will float up out of the boat. Propane will suffocate you, burn you, freeze you, and blow you up!

Yeah, I like propane, like Hank Hill http://www.hankhillquotes.com/quotes/Hank-Hill/...but I'm not as smart.

I should be in bed, but *no*...I gotta sift through the pack of lies they call wikipedia and throw down the law.

Charles' Law, to be precise....

Graham's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...oh, guess that's Graham's Law...see how tired I am.

Now remember that experiment of pouring out a beaker of CO2 and it snuffed out the burning splint...and the refraction of the light through the different gases as it rolled across the table Yeah, I was there too. It was cool.

Remember the stories of people in a deep hole...like they fell in, or they were spelunking, mining, or digging a well and CO2, H2S, or some other denser than air gas was at the bottom and killed them?....I do too. Those aren't cool.

As a child do you remember what propane was like before they added the stink?...I don't. It's 'always' been stinky.

Do you remember those hot July days putting your two liter bottle of soda from the hot truck into a bucket and squirting with liquid propane to cool it down for lunch....oh, wait, that was just me.

Now, I'm glad you're a fireman. But we need a lawyer because what we have here is a legal problem..rather we have a problem with the law and we need a physicist...it's so confusing for the sleep deprived....just as I regret using hydrogen as an example because it confuses people who jump to conclusions. Nonetheless the law applies the same to hydrogen as it does to uranium hexafluoride (because you read the wiki)....so indulge me in a little experiment.

Hydrogen Sulfide is a gas like propane. It'll kill you. It burns. It's denser than air....I suspect you could freeze things with, but it would be ghastly...oh, yeah, and it has that dreaded invisibility thing....actually it is worse than propane, but being a fireman...you knew all that.

Ok for this experiment unless you have H2S in a can you need to eat a good protein/sulfur rich meal because you need those intestinal microbes to grind out some real stinky flatulence...rich in H2S...because being a fireman you know that straight methane farts don't smell.

Now find a big container, a paper bag, a pickle jar, a milk jug, a big ol' bucket....load it up with H2S...but don't whiff, it might kill you because the air oxygen has been displaced. (You know that is suppose to have happened to one big ol' fat guy....I mean 800# fat. He went to sleep in a small room, and the coroner claimed he asphyxiated himself with intestinal gas....that's the story anyway.)

Ok, now that you have filled the container. Set it aside. Put it in a closet. Put it somewhere the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow to keep convective currents and drafts away.

You're a fireman, so let the law handle it...gRAdamncapkeyham's Law.

Come back the next day and wonder what you have done...shove that schnoz deep and...and...and it's gone. (I'm guessing, I don't know from personal experience.)...or most of would be gone because diffusion of a gas at a rate inversely proportional to the square root of molecular weight is not only a great idea, like gravity,...it's the law. In other words, unless you seal it up real tightly...but that's crazy, it's against the law to keep a fart in a bag in your closet....ya' understand? Try it out and see.

Now for the flatlander and the others in the peanut gallery, I don't know if any of these boats blew up were some combination of murder, suicide, insurance scam, shoddy work, shoddy maintenance, idiot at the switch, or just tragic crappy luck, but clearly there was an ignition before the gas has had time to fulfill 'its legal obligation' to disperse...because it's a bloody gas and that's the law.

So lets all move along....at a rate inversely proportional to the root of our density.

...and remember; It's better to be careful than fearful.