Fire suppression stickers

[Cyrus Safdari]

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge about marine applications of fire suppression stickers (they contain microencapsulated fire suppression material that is released once heated)
I think putting a few around the boat, ie in the distribution panel, over the isolation transformer and around outlets would be a good idea. They can be cut to shape too
https://youtu.be/9_vj3c6_K-8

I am also aware of Blazecut and Maus etc

[MikeHoncho]

Not knowing the science behind it and just seeing a couple second video of it, I am completely skeptical given they are using a flammable liquid. That wasn't gasoline by the way. I believe a continuous feed electrical fire would be even more of a skeptical situation for this "sticker"

[Cyrus Safdari]

I think you may want to look into this some more, there's been advances in fire suppression that may interest boaters ; I only found these relatively recently after installing my own engine bay FSS, but started looking into options for the distribution panel etc (since most boat fires are actually electrical- not engine-origin)

Aside from stickers with clean extinguishers for electrical panels there are these too:

https://youtu.be/DeHjE57uZEE


Some manufacturers (who are free to send me swag!)

http://firesticker.ca


https://www.elidefireus.com/elide-fi...QaAgDXEALw_wcB


https://maussafety.com/products/maus...ticker?lang=en

https://www.blazecutusa.com/

[MikeHoncho]

I will when I have some time but 26 years in the fire service and 22 as a hazmat tech leads me to believe this isn’t the answer to what you are intending it for. They are selling it as a small confined space extinguisher like in a junction box that will exhaust what ever chemistry they are using as long as the power remains on. Putting a hydrocarbon soaked block of something in a box and lighting it on fire is a different thing ( although impressive in itself). The ignition source isn’t continuous like in a electrical fire. Notice the stickers are above the fire source. It is dependent on dripping the extinguishing agent onto the fire to stop the chain reaction .location, location, location

[Cyrus Safdari]

Yes I plan on putting the stickers in distribution panels which is a small enclosed space, around outlets etc

The other two techs are not for small enclosed spaces
Car and engine guys are familiar with Blazecut, usually used in battery and engine compartments
Elide is a fire extinguisher

These are newish products and so don't have UL rating so thats why you don't see them professionally...yet

[Calif.Ted]

It appears that the extinguishing agent is Novec 1230 a Halon substitute manufactured by 3M, could work, if the delivery system does.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/novec-us...e-suppression/

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

Not knowing the science behind it and just seeing a couple second video of it, I am completely skeptical given they are using a flammable liquid. That wasn't gasoline by the way. I believe a continuous feed electrical fire would be even more of a skeptical situation for this "sticker"

And not likely to have gasoline in an electrical enclosure, nor anything else that can support combustion (rated plastics, like electrical tape and wire nuts, are self-extinguishing. But yes, the key difference with electrical fires is that the heat source often maintains.

Creating a realistic fire for a demonstration is intentionally difficult, and thus hard to replicate.


They are above the fire because that is where the heat goes. Fire detection is always placed high. The agent is a gas (Actually pyrotechnic, I believe).


Yeah, other than smell, how would you know they reacted? Thus, they are not going to function for an unattended boat (the fire will probably re-light). What about when you are there?


Where do fires start on boats?
* fuel leaks. You'll need a lot more agent.
* sump pumps overheat. Not enclosed space. Do the stickers resist moisture?
* shore power inlet. Sustained overload in most cases.

* other motors. Generally not in boxes.



I've had two incipient fires. One was a fan motor (not enclosed space) and the other were wires the PO tucked under the carpet liner and spliced by twisting, not even taped (!)(not in a box).


I'm intrigued, but I'm not sure panel fires are really a small boat (not super yacht or ship) problem. Industry has a lot more power flowing through panels; 100-400 KVA is common, compared to 1-2 KVA on a boat and 4-6 KVA in a home. Home outlets (0.7 KVA) and panels are often old and neglected, but just fix it while you are in there installing the sticker. New guts are cheaper than the sticker!

They did not list life expectancy. Opening outlets to replace them every few years sounds like a pain.

What if the adhesive lets go and they fall off?


I wonder if they are a solution to a non-problem? But a cool concept.


I have tested the Maus-type extinguishers. Very interesting and very effective, with confined space drawbacks they don't mention (terrible visibility problems, breathing problems).

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by thinwater

And not likely to have gasoline in an electrical enclosure, nor anything else that can support combustion (rated plastics, like electrical tape and wire nuts, are self-extinguishing. But yes, the key difference with electrical fires is that the heat source often maintains.

I won't pretend to be a fire engineer on this forum but as far as I've read these stickers are designed and intended for electrical panels, so I suggest further research before light dismissal

The Maus fire suppression stickers are apparently made in one them countries where they use ummlats so language may be a barrier...


Another video

https://youtu.be/72XW3eK-jbA

Originally Posted by thinwater

Yeah, other than smell, how would you know they reacted? Thus, they are not going to function for an unattended boat (the fire will probably re-light). What about when you are there?

I think the point is when you're not there, and it is better than nothing

Where do fires start on boats?
* fuel leaks
* sump pumps overheat
* shore power inlet

Most boat fires are electrical


This stuff is pretty low cost so no harm trying it out

Life expectancy

5 to 7 yrs for one product my quick search finds...

Anyway something for y'all to consider

[thinwater]

Not a quick dismissal. Sorry if I gave that impression. I find the concept very attractive.


Look at Element 50 fire extinguishers for another interesting product (same tech as Maus). It really does work (have tested several times) amazingly well... with some drawbacks. All I meant is that you need to "filter" advertising claims--they tend to emphasize the positive. You know how that is.


https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...evention-tools

[Statistical]

I think the big limitation is not knowing they are being used.

You have a small arc in your electrical panel, the sticker temporarily prevents a flare up. Great. Now without de-energizing the circuit and replacing the failed component it will just arc again and now there is no suppression system to prevent a fire.

That makes me think these do little more than feel good security. Now if the company recommended putting a fire detector inside the panel next to the sticker then maybe but that they don't even recommend that makes me think they really aren't trying to solve a problem.

[Cyrus Safdari]

If we're specifically talking about the fire stickers and not the other two forms of FSS tech noted above:

How would you knowyou had an arc without these? A burnt boat potentially


And no they won't cut off the power

First, seems to me something is better than nothing taking price as the main constraining factor. These aren't expensive or hard to install, there's no great investment reqd, and whatever seconds of time they potentiall suppress a fire is worth the nominal price

Second heck I'm no engineer so I dunno, do all auto fire suppression system turn off the source of ignition in addition to putting out fires? Id be interested to hear from actual knowledable & experienced folks who are familiar with this stuff about how would it work in comparison with any other dedicated automatic electrical extinguisher ie
https://rvcoolingunit.com/SS-30-Halo...-P1872263.aspx

when it comes to inboard diesel engine bay fires, there should be an auto engine kill as we all know (primarily to prevent evacuation of gaseous fire suppressant but I guess it cuts off the source of fire ignition too, assuming it 8s related to the engine) but indeed, what about electrical fires and automatic extinguishers? Will the power being left on be a big enuf problem to not bother with automatic suppression systems Ie

https://rvcoolingunit.com/SS-30-Halo...-P1872263.aspx


These all would be a great question for manufacturers / distributors to chime in too, because like 8bsa8d the major cause 9f fires aboard boats is electrical wiring and connections not engines
Kinda hoping they will so we can hash this out with min. speculation more information because this does look like useful tech aboard...but it is new and people are suspicious 9f new esp in safety systems, rightly so

[Cyrus Safdari]

And while we're at it, what about auto suppression of galley fires? One of the fire suppression balls seems like a good idea to put above the cooker somewhere it won't reach the setoff temp, in case of a runaway galley fire, costs less than $100
I remember there was a time you could tell if a boat had an alcohol stove because the curtains were always singed...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Statistical

... That makes me think these do little more than feel good security. Now if the company recommended putting a fire detector inside the panel next to the sticker then maybe but that they don't even recommend that makes me think they really aren't trying to solve a problem.

Very perceptive.



I don't think they aren't trying, they are just trying to keep it simple. Perhaps too simple to fully solve the problem.



The idea of a tiny temperature alarm is interesting. A beeper? Blue tooth? Obviously, heat alarms exist, but I wonder how small and cheap they can be? This might not be justifiable for every outlet (very, very low risk if wired properly), but could make sense for larger spaces if the price was right.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Alarms of various sorts are included in standard remote monitoring systems, now will put out a fire of course
I don't think any automatic fire suppression system automatically beeps you

[Cyrus Safdari]

Practical sailor has an article about "New marine prevention tools" March 2020
https://www.practical-sailor.com/safety-seamanship/new-marine-fire-prevention-tools