Fastners: Best drive type?

[Suijin]

Having stripped the deck of virtually every piece of hardware, and needing to order new fasteners to reinstall them, I'm faced with the question of what drive type to use.

Phillips are evil, particularly in stainless. They were designed for automation, and to cam out when a specified torque was reached. With stainless, if you're not very careful or you're unlucky, "cam out" is a euphemism for "strip".

Granted, a good majority of the fasteners going back in won't need to be touched for a couple of dozen more years, but might as well use the best option while I'm at it.

I'm a big fan of Robertson, and while I have not checked yet I suspect that availability might be limited across various fastener types in stainless. Downside is that you better have the right Robertson bit/driver or you're screwed, or not screwed, or not unscrewed, as the case may be. You can get a Phillips head screwdriver anywhere.

What say you? If you've been down this path, what did you do and where did you get your fasteners? I'll likely start with McMaster Carr. While I know there are other sources of fasteners online that are significantly less expensive, I really don't want to put down 400+ odd bolts and screws only to discover that I ended up with substandard product.

[Ziggy]

Phillips are evil, but they are less evil than slotted. My boat came with a majority of screws slotted. I have been replacing them with Phillips screws and hex head bolts, as appropriate. Torx and Allen head are both good, but not nearly as widely available, and significantly more expensive to build up an inventory of spares.

[maine50]

I've been using "The Nutty Co" in Milford, Ct for a long time. Good quality fasteners at a fair price. Their selection is good as they only do fasteners and if they don't have it they can order. They do a lot of mail order, even overseas.--Tim

[UNCIVILIZED]

For me, what type is "best" really depends on the application. And I've gotten so used to the standard ones over the years, that other than in unique situations I can't see switching them. The one exception being small, high torque ones, where Torx heads seem to excel. But otherwise, switching everything to another type will surely cost you quite a bit. And you won't easily find replacements for some in your regular chandlery.

I'd say that the time & effort spent studying, & or buying, different fastener types, would be better spent self-educating on proper types of anti-sieze & lcoking compounds. As well as torque settings. Since with the proper application of these "tools" & techniques, you'll have a lot less sticky fasteners to wrestle with. Especially on/in machinery.
Never-Seize, & Blue Loctite were "Eureka" moments for me when I "discovered" them, & similar products.

[Lake-Effect]

I'm sort of with the Uncivilized one here. I've become used to and adept with most common screw types, and I have a set of good screwdrivers that fit the different screws correctly. I keep an eye on my Phillips drivers, sharpen them occasionally, and pitch them if they're noticibly rounded. Likewise with stripped screws. I don't have many problems.

Slotted are evil, I generally change them out. Robertson are great but I don't find them that often in SS.

[S/V Alchemy]

I am in Toronto. Canada is home to the Robertson drive, and they are very common here for the favourable qualities you cite. You can get any size of SS Robertson from this place, and they are very helpful. In fact, you can get Robertsons in silicon bronze if you prefer.

Pacific Fasteners - Home

[TrentePieds]

Alchemy said it :-)

There re only three sizes of Robertson drivers you will need: # 1, #2, and #3. Hand drivers and driver bits for drill/driver motors are available at any lumberyard hereabouts. I'm sure any one of us Canucks would be happy to send you a complete kit :-)

Be careful with the bits. The moment the corners begin to round, chuck that bit away. If you don't, you'll get the same "torquing out" effect the Phillips heads are notorious for.

The screws themselves can be had from industrial supply houses, and if you deal with the smaller, service oriented ones, they can special-order screws fit for marine use if need be.

But note this: A slot screw is easier than a Robertson to "wake from the dead" if it has been covered with goop of any kind. If the kerf on a Robertson has been fllled with goop, it needs to be resurrected by having the goop "drilled out" with something like a tiny bit in a Dremel tool followed by cleaning with a pick. Can be done, but it's a slow PITA.

TP

[LooseGoose]

Another tip with Phillips screws, is that you must use the right size driver....#1,2,3 exist and you need to choose the correct size. Another important consideration is driver bit quality. Buy them from Snap-On or even source out diamond-dust coated bits to minimize slippage and deformation or stripping.

[Cheechako]

I have no problem with Phillips in most uses. They are economical and come in an array of head type from pan head to oval head etc.. I always drill and tap if screwing into fiberglass though and use a machine screw. If price is no object, I prefer Square drive for Sheet metal screws which I always use in lieu of any wood screws.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

For me, what type is "best" really depends on the application. And I've gotten so used to the standard ones over the years, that other than in unique situations I can't see switching them. The one exception being small, high torque ones, where Torx heads seem to excel. But otherwise, switching everything to another type will surely cost you quite a bit. And you won't easily find replacements for some in your regular chandlery.

I'm replacing 95% of the fasteners I pulled out, so cost is not a major factor.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I'd say that the time & effort spent studying, & or buying, different fastener types, would be better spent self-educating on proper types of anti-sieze & lcoking compounds. As well as torque settings. Since with the proper application of these "tools" & techniques, you'll have a lot less sticky fasteners to wrestle with. Especially on/in machinery.
Never-Seize, & Blue Loctite were "Eureka" moments for me when I "discovered" them, & similar products.

I'm pretty well schooled on that subject.

The issue is that phillips head became ubiquitous beyond the application that they were designed for. There are better options out there, certainly robertson and probably also frearson, which I'm partial to. I don't want to install something just because "I'm used to dealing with the inadequacy of the design" when I have the opportunity to swap wholesale to a superior drive type.

The big issue is like I said tools. I have this nagging concern in the back of my mind that switching will come back to haunt me down the road. Like I'll walk into Bodega Blanca on Santa Cruz in the Galapagos and ask for a Robertson #2 and they are like "Qué?"

Robertson for the silicon bronze trim screws in the cabin might be the ticket regardless of what else I do. Those philips ones strip if you just look at them funny.

[01kiwijohn]

I go with Robertson wherever possible. Only 3 size drivers, if you do bugger one up, the resultant head is easier to center the drill bit and just take the head off, then remove the stub with vice grips. Second choice,if the application will tolerate it, use a hex head
Get one of those impact drivers, the type you smack with a hammer. They greatly reduce the chances of rounding off any type driver receiver, need no electricity to operate, and require only a modicum of common sense to become a proficient operator.

[Dan_K]

I use the diamond coated phillips bits from McMaster Carr (part number 36285A53 for a #2) and have not had screws cam out. Also use them on our club's Cessna aircraft.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

Get one of those impact drivers, the type you smack with a hammer. They greatly reduce the chances of rounding off any type driver receiver, need no electricity to operate, and require only a modicum of common sense to become a proficient operator.

Have one, would never think about doing a refit without one. Indispensable tool. When nothing else will budge it, that will.

[deblen]

Robertson or square drive.

For 99% of boatwork-you will use size 1,2 or 3 color coded green,red & black.
Make sure the recess in the screw is a tight fit on the screwdriver or bit.
You should be able to shake the screwdriver & not have the screw fall off.
I have seen poor fitting (cheap) screws that are loose on the bit & cause grief.
Make sure that you push hard on the bit/screw before you turn.
Buy lots of bits if you are power driving.

https://sizes.com/tools/screw_drive.htm





/ Len

[DeepFrz]

In his screwdriver thread, http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-184035.html , Dockhead speaks highly of the Pozi screw head. I'm not sure I had ever heard of them before but I am sure I have run into them and Philips screwdrivers don't like them much.