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Old 16-05-2017, 21:40   #46
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

I'm doing some rough carpentry with 2 x 4's. I went to Home Depot to get some 3" deck screws to join the wood. I wanted Robertson head screws but they didn't have any.

I ended up buying Deckmate brand Torx head screws. They call them Star Drive but they are Torx. I bought two T-25 Deckmate brand driver bits.

I only managed to drive 12 screws before both drivers were ruined. Either Torx sucks or Deckmate driver bits are really soft.

I'll have to go back tomorrow and see if I can find a different brand of driver.
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Old 16-05-2017, 21:53   #47
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

Mr. Robertson was offered a distribution deal in the States but didn't think his cut was worth it, so he declined. As a result, Robbies were never sold in the States in a big way and only Canadians got to enjoy them. Too bad, as they're the best fasteners this side of Torx.
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Old 16-05-2017, 22:22   #48
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

Old, even used fasteners cleaned up to reuse, if not made in China, with cheap metal alloys work well, hold the driving tool and can take a lot of torque going in and coming out.
It's the bad quality metal, be it carbon steel, stainless, brass or anything, not just fasteners but on everything made in China. They spend more engineering time designing things and the tools to make things as chincey ( wonder where that word came from....chi ...) and as cheap as possible. They look nice and shiny but just do not last at all even if they can be used.
Save a dollar on materials or tools and waste a day to remove, fix the surface and re-do the work, again with the same cheap flimsy, chincey stuff which is mostly the only stuff available. They get to sell you twice the amount because you have to do the work again. It's a win win for them. Very frustrating!. Buy American! (if you can ever find the stuff anymore)
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Old 16-05-2017, 22:38   #49
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

An awful lot of Chinese and Indian steel is only case hardened, which can give you a nasty surprise if you try to anneal it and then work it. Pieces from the late 70's on can give you fits.

My experience with Chinese goods, including electronics and structural steel, is that the Chinese factor will supply test pieces that meet spec but, after the contract is signed, the factor will shop the contract for the lowest bidder and then supply subgrade goods and pocket the difference.
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Old 17-05-2017, 02:45   #50
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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Originally Posted by slowpoker View Post
... everything made in China. They spend more engineering time designing things and the tools to make things as chincey ( wonder where that word came from....chi ...) and as cheap as possible...
Chintzy/chintsy comes from chintz, a printed cotton fabric imported from India.
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Old 08-06-2017, 23:35   #51
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

There is a reason you never find Robertson fasteners on a new boat. They are really only used in certain regions of the world. Philips was the fastener of choice for most builders but are new being replaced with Pozi-drive. There is ample amount of holding power with a Phillips head, so much so you will likely snap the fastener (316 or 18-8) before stripping the head. Most people strip heads because of wrong size driver, worn out driver or trying to undo a Pozi fastener with Phillip driver. Building a house in North America, Robertson is great. Fixing a boat, especially elsewhere in the world, Phillips is the standard.
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Old 10-06-2017, 18:05   #52
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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There is ample amount of holding power with a Phillips head, so much so you will likely snap the fastener (316 or 18-8) before stripping the head.
I can testify to that. I've sheared off quite a few phillips fasteners. Plenty of drive power when using the correct size bit that's not worn.
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Old 10-06-2017, 19:08   #53
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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You don't screw into aluminum on an aircraft. There is always something else there for the threads to screw into. It is colossal BS that the phillips part of the screw will "cam out"first.
The so called "expert" article forgot about spline head screws, which are quite common in aircraft also.
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Old 10-06-2017, 19:14   #54
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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You don't screw into aluminum on an aircraft. There is always something else there for the threads to screw into. It is colossal BS that the phillips part of the screw will "cam out"first.

The so called "expert" article forgot about spline head screws, which are quite common in aircraft also.


Some you do, they are commonly called PK screws. My old factory used them when I first got there, I made them stop and install nut plates, they also used riv-nuts too, which are a creation of the Devil himself I am sure.
However PK screws and riv-nuts scream cheap and poor build quality.
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Old 10-06-2017, 19:20   #55
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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Some you do, they are commonly called PK screws. My old factory used them when I first got there, I made them stop and install nut plates, they also used riv-nuts too, which are a creation of the Devil himself I am sure.
However PK screws and riv-nuts scream cheap and poor build quality.
Maybe in an AG plane but in any normal cat plane they use a Tinnerman nut on PK screws.
Your plane was just a big homebuilt, so sure no nut plates.
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Old 10-06-2017, 19:37   #56
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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Some you do, they are commonly called PK screws. My old factory used them when I first got there, I made them stop and install nut plates, they also used riv-nuts too, which are a creation of the Devil himself I am sure.
However PK screws and riv-nuts scream cheap and poor build quality.

I hate RivNuts with a passion. I have several on some motorcycles I own and invariably they will spin in place, preventing the machine screw to be removed. And always in an inaccessible location.

I have tried impact drivers (sometimes works), epoxy to set them (hasn't worked so far), and staking them (worked once).

Hate them !
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:21   #57
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Fastners: Best drive type?

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Maybe in an AG plane but in any normal cat plane they use a Tinnerman nut on PK screws.
Your plane was just a big homebuilt, so sure no nut plates.


Well Maule and Piper use PK screws, and the tinnermen nut plates used by Cessna and others do not use a PK screw, they use a special screw that does look an awful lot like a PK screw but isn't.
I'm on terribly slow Marina Wifi so I can't google, but if you Google Cessna tinnerman screw I'm sure it will pop up.
For everyone else a PK screw is really nothing more than a sheet metal screw, PK was I think a name of a manufacturer, likely Parker something, but Google isn't available for me to look it up.
Oh, and Thrush is likely no Homebuilt, although Homebuilt aircraft are I'm sure like Homebuilt boats, the quality is up to the manufacturer, I have seen some Homebuilt's that are of higher quality than any factory produced aircraft.

Look up Iomax Thrush and tell me that looks like a Homebuilt, that was my last project before Retirement.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:44   #58
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

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Look up Iomax Thrush and tell me that looks like a Homebuilt, that was my last project before Retirement.
Yow! If you could put rockets on a homebuilt that would be cool.
So there are A and B type PK screws . A has a point and B is blunt and has a different pitch.
Congrats on retirement.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:28   #59
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

We had nothing to do with sensors or weaponization, just airframe manufacturers.
Yes, I hope to enjoy retirement, about a week and a half into it now.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:38   #60
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Re: Fastners: Best drive type?

The one thing that I have learned in my 30+ years in the aerospace industry (private, commercial, military) is if you say something as fact about one sector, somebody from another will call BS!

PK's are common in the private sector. In commercial they are only used for cosmetic trim. I can't think of any uses for them in military applications and as far as extraterrestrial, they have zero use!

Nut plates are common in all aerospace sectors where the parts are to removed on a regular basis. So are riv-nuts. But riv-nuts are most often used in nonstructural applications. And if properly installed, they are great! as long as you use the right tools with the correct settings.

What all of these fasteners have in common is the drive system.
Most are either Phillips, Prince & Reed or Pozi.
No need to use any of the "happy home maker" new fangled drive systems. Because if you have people who know what they are doing and care about the work, a single #2 Apex Phillips bit can remove thousands of screws.
Done it many times!

As far as the screw drive that the Devil himself designed, that would be the Tri-Wing!
Hands down the worst drive ever designed.
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