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Old 25-01-2017, 06:31   #61
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Hi minaret,
This is really intriguing as I am only used to working with Awlgrip and Alexseal on steel boats.

You are absolutely right about the many layers of product and work needed from primer/fairing/high build primer/base coat/ 3 x topcoats with sand in between

So is there any reason why I could not use a gel coat on a previously Awlgrip painted steel hull?

If you say "no".... I'll probably shoot myself later[emoji1]

How does the depth of gloss and gloss retention compare?

Attachment 140119Attachment 140120Attachment 140121


For sure no, gel is too thick and stiff for a steel boat, it would certainly crack, aside from potential bonding issues.


Try the ruler method for measuring DOI I mentioned earlier in this thread. I can clearly read the 12" mark in my gel, can you do so in your Alexseal? Most paints the image starts to warble out at about the 9" mark.


Gloss retention compared to paint is not as good, though modern gel is definitely much better than the old stuff due to better UV inhibitors. Definitely requires more maintenance.
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Old 25-01-2017, 15:50   #62
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Thanks minaret... (I can put the gun away)[emoji1]

Best depth of gloss I ever got was 8" in San Diego using Pratt & Lambert......That was on a 180 ft yacht,never polished!

It retained gloss for 6 years despite being washed to death and doing 3 circumnavigations

I Will test on stargazer but it was rolled with brushing thinner so I doubt if it is that good.

My priority is low maintenance and long periods between hull washes.
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Old 25-01-2017, 16:14   #63
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
I'm not aware of any way to apply gelcoat over steel. It will adhere to abrade polyester very well, but steel, me thinks not.
Above the waterline the steel hull and house is faired with marine grade putty so I guess it would adhere.

Last paint job I had to take the deck back to bare steel to get rid of a rubber Sanitread product i tried.
So after priming it wasClick image for larger version

Name:	1485389633201.jpg
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ID:	140145 re-faired.

I think the cracking that minaret suggests, might be because of expansion factors as well

Click image for larger version

Name:	1485389532903.jpg
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ID:	140144
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Old 25-01-2017, 16:25   #64
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Minaret, you mentioned earlier in the thread that on your boat you used paint on the deck areas that were going to subsequently get nonskid, instead of gel coating, for technical reasons. What were those reasons? I'm curious, as that's something that bears on what I'll be doing.
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Old 26-01-2017, 06:29   #65
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Minaret, you mentioned earlier in the thread that on your boat you used paint on the deck areas that were going to subsequently get nonskid, instead of gel coating, for technical reasons. What were those reasons? I'm curious, as that's something that bears on what I'll be doing.


Here ya go, thought I explained that one already.



Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
OK I'm interested. I'm probably looking at a deck job at some point in the not too distant future and you're making DIY gelcoat sound like a feasible option given my existing set of skills.

So I'll want non-skid on a significant amount of surface...deck, coach roof, sections of cockpit. Why put nonskid on top of a paint base layer and not new gelcoat?


Because it's much easier to get good results reliably. Issues include: There is no flattening agent for gel coat non skid. You cannot use PVA for skid because it is usually bright green or purple and will sometimes stain the particles. Therefore you must use surface seal (wax) to provide a surface cure, and that surface cure must be perfect, hard as nails. This means you must also catalyze pretty hot. Therefore, doing gelcoat nonskid is much more technically demanding than paint; for instance I would never roll gel skid. Ambient conditions become much more important. Odds of getting a result with high amounts of gloss in some areas and not so much in others is good if done outdoors. The end result, however, can be spectacular if all goes well. It wears the hardest of all skids, by far.




Perhaps related, I have molded in nonskid, which I detest. The plan was to sand it off entirely.



I have talked many clients into this one, as I too detest it. Too difficult and time consuming to repair, not comfortable to lay on. Grind that crap off and Griptex it! JMHO.



As an aside, how are the 3m microfine pads for wet sanding to restore gelcoat, vs. compounding with a machine? Looks like a better result and honestly looks like less work than a buffer, particularly given fittings, edges, etc.
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Old 26-01-2017, 06:32   #66
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Above the waterline the steel hull and house is faired with marine grade putty so I guess it would adhere.

Last paint job I had to take the deck back to bare steel to get rid of a rubber Sanitread product i tried.
So after priming it wasAttachment 140145 re-faired.

I think the cracking that minaret suggests, might be because of expansion factors as well

Attachment 140144


Precisely. Just not flexible enough for steel, especially given dissimilar rates of expansion and contraction.
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Old 26-01-2017, 06:36   #67
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Thanks minaret... (I can put the gun away)[emoji1]

Best depth of gloss I ever got was 8" in San Diego using Pratt & Lambert......That was on a 180 ft yacht,never polished!

It retained gloss for 6 years despite being washed to death and doing 3 circumnavigations

I Will test on stargazer but it was rolled with brushing thinner so I doubt if it is that good.

My priority is low maintenance and long periods between hull washes.


Excellent priorities, though I would suggest they may be better met by Awlgrip rather than Alexseal. Probably a question of availability in your parts, eh?
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Old 26-01-2017, 09:38   #68
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Because it's much easier to get good results reliably. Issues include: There is no flattening agent for gel coat non skid. You cannot use PVA for skid because it is usually bright green or purple and will sometimes stain the particles. Therefore you must use surface seal (wax) to provide a surface cure, and that surface cure must be perfect, hard as nails. This means you must also catalyze pretty hot. Therefore, doing gelcoat nonskid is much more technically demanding than paint; for instance I would never roll gel skid. Ambient conditions become much more important. Odds of getting a result with high amounts of gloss in some areas and not so much in others is good if done outdoors. The end result, however, can be spectacular if all goes well. It wears the hardest of all skids, by far. [/COLOR]
Apologies, I missed this earlier. And just realized I mis-read your refit thread in the first place; I thought you said you sprayed the whole deck (instead of gel coating) because it was better to put the nonskid on top of paint than gelcoat.
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Old 26-01-2017, 10:29   #69
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

A bit ago I asked some questions about my Paceship 23 deck rebuild.
Once the weather lets up I intend to complete the recoring job using WEST.

As I mentioned a lot of the deck and cockpit area is diamond nonskid. I have no objection to that except matching would be difficult.

I considered painting with the nonskid being KIWI. After reading your thoughts on kiwi I guess that is not the way to go.

My goal is to have something that looks good, that I can apply, and for the sections of nonskid to not be sandpaper.

I have been reading a lot about different deck coatings and frankly am a little unsure which route to go.

The entire deck will be coated along with the cockpit area.

Most of the hardware is off and I think I will remove the toerails also.

I also assume the nonskid will have to be sanded down to apply a new coating.

Thanks
Bruce
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Old 18-02-2017, 04:40   #70
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

I have compounded polished and waxed my boat. The gelcoat looks beautiful. I live in Florida and my question is how often must I reapply wax to maintain the beautiful shine? Also is there a recommendation on how many coats of wax to apply.
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Old 18-02-2017, 07:52   #71
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by rwells36 View Post
I have compounded polished and waxed my boat. The gelcoat looks beautiful. I live in Florida and my question is how often must I reapply wax to maintain the beautiful shine? Also is there a recommendation on how many coats of wax to apply.


Do two coats of a good quality paste wax like Fleetwax at the beginning of each season, ie once per year minimum. In a place with lots of heavy UV like Florida, it can be advisable to step this up to at the beginning and end of each season, ie twice yearly. Almost nobody does this anymore and it makes a huge difference. Be sure to apply paste wax correctly, letting it dry to a haze before hand buffing with microfiber, no machines. It's work.
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Old 18-02-2017, 07:53   #72
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by bcc101 View Post
A bit ago I asked some questions about my Paceship 23 deck rebuild.
Once the weather lets up I intend to complete the recoring job using WEST.

As I mentioned a lot of the deck and cockpit area is diamond nonskid. I have no objection to that except matching would be difficult.

I considered painting with the nonskid being KIWI. After reading your thoughts on kiwi I guess that is not the way to go.

My goal is to have something that looks good, that I can apply, and for the sections of nonskid to not be sandpaper.

I have been reading a lot about different deck coatings and frankly am a little unsure which route to go.

The entire deck will be coated along with the cockpit area.

Most of the hardware is off and I think I will remove the toerails also.

I also assume the nonskid will have to be sanded down to apply a new coating.

Thanks
Bruce


It's a question of personal taste more than anything. Sounds like it may be time for you to sample some products and see what you like. Walking the docks on a sunny day and talking with people about what's on their decks can help too.
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